奥马哈的AAXX打法求指教

今天赢得最多和输的最多的都是AAXX，rush10的一手AA75单花，翻前打出25%筹码，两人跟，翻后2K3，有我没的同花听牌，allin，刚好三分之一胜率赢了。剩下都rush5的，今天输的最多的，AA72单花，翻前打出20%筹码，翻后J72彩虹，我当然要跟all了，然后就被三条打死了。
今天输的第二多的，AAK9彩虹牌，翻前打出30%，两人跟注。不过这手翻后allin的时候是40%胜率，好歹替我挣了点EV。
输的第三多的，AA63单花，翻牌45K，我有两端顺，过牌跟注三分之二池，转牌2彩虹，我中坚果顺，过牌加注allin，河牌K葫芦BB，这手牌没问题吧。
输的第四多的，AAK5双花，翻牌4T8，两张红桃，我没有红桃，转牌T，两组同花听牌我都没有，但没关系，对手靠T三条赢得。这手我翻牌前打出有效筹码的28%，翻牌圈他过牌我下半池，转牌圈他过牌我继续下注他跟all。
输的第五和第六也是AAXX，不过这两手都是翻前allin，没问题。
我现在觉得我对AAXX的理解有问题，否则不至于亏损榜前六被AAXX霸占。不过看EV的话，6手牌里4手都是正的，所以我也不确定我到底有没有问题。

牌谱太多，等下我把负ev的两手牌单独开一楼发下。

PokerStars Hand #20116035135: Omaha Pot Limit  ($0.05/$0.1) - 2021/11/29 04:36:14
Table 'RushAndCash145135' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: 14f8267d ($10 in chips)
Seat 2: Hero ($10.01 in chips)
Seat 3: 76b899bf ($11.22 in chips)
Seat 4: f3e5efc1 ($2.48 in chips)
Seat 5: c8c025d3 ($10 in chips)
Seat 6: c79b9b40 ($6.24 in chips)
Hero: posts small blind $0.05
76b899bf: posts big blind $0.1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [As 5s 7c Ah]
f3e5efc1: calls $0.1
c8c025d3: raises $0.35 to $0.45
c79b9b40: calls $0.45
14f8267d: calls $0.45
Hero: raises $2 to $2.45
76b899bf: folds
f3e5efc1: folds
c8c025d3: calls $2
c79b9b40: calls $2
14f8267d: folds
*** FLOP *** [2c Kc 3d]
Hero: checks
c8c025d3: bets $7.55 and is all-in
c79b9b40: calls $3.79 and is all-in
Hero: calls $7.55
c8c025d3: shows [4c 3h 8c 7h] (Pair of Treys)
c79b9b40: shows [6d Ad Kd 8h] (Pair of Kings)
Hero: shows [As 5s 7c Ah] (Pair of Aces)
*** TURN *** [2c Kc 3d] [9s]
*** RIVER *** [2c Kc 3d 9s] [5d]
*** SHOWDOWN ***
Hero collected $18.94 from pot
Hero collected $7.5 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $26.89 | Rake $0.3 | Jackpot $0.15 | Bingo $0
Board [2c Kc 3d 9s 5d]
Seat 1: 14f8267d (button) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Hero (small blind) showed [As 5s 7c Ah] and won ($26.44) with Pair of Aces
Seat 3: 76b899bf (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: f3e5efc1 folded before Flop
Seat 5: c8c025d3 showed [4c 3h 8c 7h] and lost with Pair of Treys
Seat 6: c79b9b40 showed [6d Ad Kd 8h] and lost with Pair of Kings

PokerStars Hand #20116131607: Omaha Pot Limit  ($0.02/$0.05) - 2021/11/29 12:34:18
Table 'RushAndCash121607' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: a1e58f4 ($7.73 in chips)
Seat 2: 42597f0d ($4.99 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero ($14.59 in chips)
Seat 4: e3f130cb ($8.09 in chips)
Seat 5: 2fceb356 ($1.6 in chips)
Seat 6: 207dac0a ($4.63 in chips)
42597f0d: posts small blind $0.02
Hero: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [2s As Ac 7s]
e3f130cb: folds
2fceb356: folds
207dac0a: folds
a1e58f4: raises $0.05 to $0.1
42597f0d: folds
Hero: raises $0.05 to $0.15
a1e58f4: raises $0.32 to $0.47
Hero: raises $0.96 to $1.43
a1e58f4: calls $0.96
*** FLOP *** [Jh 7d 2c]
Hero: bets $2.88
a1e58f4: raises $3.42 to $6.3 and is all-in
Hero: calls $3.42
a1e58f4: shows [6s Qh Jd Jc] (Three Jacks)
Hero: shows [2s As Ac 7s] (Pair of Sevens and Pair of Twos)
a1e58f4: get an all-in insurance (premium ($0/$0.3/$0) for ($0/$3.6/$0) - (Mandatory/Main/Sub))
*** TURN *** [Jh 7d 2c] [Kh]
a1e58f4: pay premium of all-in insurance ($0.3)
a1e58f4: get an all-in insurance (premium ($0/$0.5/$0) for ($0/$6/$0) - (Mandatory/Main/Sub))
*** RIVER *** [Jh 7d 2c Kh] [Th]
a1e58f4: pay premium of all-in insurance ($0.5)
*** SHOWDOWN ***
a1e58f4 collected $15.26 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $15.48 | Rake $0.15 | Jackpot $0.07 | Bingo $0
Board [Jh 7d 2c Kh Th]
Seat 1: a1e58f4 (button) showed [6s Qh Jd Jc] and won ($15.26) with Three Jacks, AII Premium ($0.8)
Seat 2: 42597f0d (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Hero (big blind) showed [2s As Ac 7s] and lost with Pair of Sevens and Pair of Twos
Seat 4: e3f130cb folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 2fceb356 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: 207dac0a folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PokerStars Hand #20116134503: Omaha Pot Limit  ($0.02/$0.05) - 2021/11/29 14:03:20
Table 'RushAndCash124503' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ($10.05 in chips)
Seat 2: c5bd2e97 ($3.88 in chips)
Seat 3: 3c73f6c8 ($6.53 in chips)
Seat 4: 3009788e ($5.71 in chips)
Seat 5: 765b46d9 ($7.72 in chips)
Seat 6: d2fa9fd ($3.27 in chips)
c5bd2e97: posts small blind $0.02
3c73f6c8: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ad 9c Ah Ks]
3009788e: folds
765b46d9: raises $0.1 to $0.15
d2fa9fd: folds
Hero: calls $0.15
c5bd2e97: raises $0.5 to $0.65
3c73f6c8: folds
765b46d9: calls $0.5
Hero: raises $2 to $2.65
c5bd2e97: calls $2
765b46d9: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [6c Js 3s]
c5bd2e97: bets $1.23 and is all-in
765b46d9: calls $1.23
Hero: raises $6.17 to $7.4 and is all-in
765b46d9: calls $3.84 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($2.33) returned to Hero
Hero: shows [Ad 9c Ah Ks] (Pair of Aces)
c5bd2e97: shows [Qh Jd 7s Th] (Pair of Jacks)
765b46d9: shows [Qs Qc 9h 8s] (Pair of Queens)
*** TURN *** [6c Js 3s] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [6c Js 3s 2s] [5h]
*** SHOWDOWN ***
765b46d9 collected $11.47 from pot
765b46d9 collected $7.68 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $19.37 | Rake $0.15 | Jackpot $0.07 | Bingo $0
Board [6c Js 3s 2s 5h]
Seat 1: Hero (button) showed [Ad 9c Ah Ks] and lost with Pair of Aces
Seat 2: c5bd2e97 (small blind) showed [Qh Jd 7s Th] and lost with Pair of Jacks
Seat 3: 3c73f6c8 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: 3009788e folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 765b46d9 showed [Qs Qc 9h 8s] and won ($19.15) with Queen High Flush
Seat 6: d2fa9fd folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PokerStars Hand #20116132090: Omaha Pot Limit  ($0.02/$0.05) - 2021/11/29 12:46:03
Table 'RushAndCash122090' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: 8495ecab ($13.88 in chips)
Seat 2: Hero ($6.02 in chips)
Seat 3: 39669d4b ($9.67 in chips)
Seat 4: fb8296e4 ($16.6 in chips)
Seat 5: 54fe48f2 ($12.02 in chips)
Seat 6: f9427b9a ($13.22 in chips)
Hero: posts small blind $0.02
39669d4b: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [3c Ad 6d As]
fb8296e4: folds
54fe48f2: folds
f9427b9a: raises $0.12 to $0.17
8495ecab: calls $0.17
Hero: raises $0.12 to $0.29
39669d4b: folds
f9427b9a: calls $0.12
8495ecab: calls $0.12
*** FLOP *** [4h 5s Kd]
Hero: checks
f9427b9a: checks
8495ecab: bets $0.69
Hero: calls $0.69
f9427b9a: folds
*** TURN *** [4h 5s Kd] [2c]
Hero: checks
8495ecab: bets $1.73
Hero: raises $3.31 to $5.04 and is all-in
8495ecab: calls $3.31
Hero: shows [3c Ad 6d As] (Sixes-High Straight)
8495ecab: shows [4s 7h 4c 7s] (Three Fours)
*** RIVER *** [4h 5s Kd 2c] [Kh]
*** SHOWDOWN ***
8495ecab collected $12.16 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $12.38 | Rake $0.15 | Jackpot $0.07 | Bingo $0
Board [4h 5s Kd 2c Kh]
Seat 1: 8495ecab (button) showed [4s 7h 4c 7s] and won ($12.16) with Fours Full over Kings
Seat 2: Hero (small blind) showed [3c Ad 6d As] and lost with Sixes-High Straight
Seat 3: 39669d4b (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: fb8296e4 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 54fe48f2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: f9427b9a folded on the Flop


PokerStars Hand #20116047208: Omaha Pot Limit  ($0.02/$0.05) - 2021/11/29 09:59:28
Table 'RushAndCash117208' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: d762624a ($5.11 in chips)
Seat 2: d5f3293 ($6.88 in chips)
Seat 3: 215df9df ($5 in chips)
Seat 4: 3dc9e6a ($5.07 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($10.1 in chips)
Seat 6: 55de1d27 ($5.06 in chips)
d5f3293: posts small blind $0.02
215df9df: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ac Kc Ad 5d]
3dc9e6a: folds
Hero: raises $0.05 to $0.1
55de1d27: folds
d762624a: folds
d5f3293: calls $0.08
215df9df: raises $0.3 to $0.4
Hero: raises $0.9 to $1.3
d5f3293: folds
215df9df: calls $0.9
*** FLOP *** [4h Th 8s]
215df9df: checks
Hero: bets $1.35
215df9df: calls $1.35
*** TURN *** [4h Th 8s] [Ts]
215df9df: checks
Hero: bets $2.7
215df9df: calls $2.35 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.35) returned to Hero
Hero: shows [Ac Kc Ad 5d] (Pair of Aces and Pair of Tens)
215df9df: shows [Kh Ks 3h Tc] (Three Tens)
*** RIVER *** [4h Th 8s Ts] [2s]
*** SHOWDOWN ***
215df9df collected $9.88 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $10.1 | Rake $0.15 | Jackpot $0.07 | Bingo $0
Board [4h Th 8s Ts 2s]
Seat 1: d762624a (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: d5f3293 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: 215df9df (big blind) showed [Kh Ks 3h Tc] and won ($9.88) with Three Tens
Seat 4: 3dc9e6a folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Hero showed [Ac Kc Ad 5d] and lost with Pair of Aces and Pair of Tens
Seat 6: 55de1d27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

今天输的最多的，我觉得算天灾吧，没理由AAXX翻牌中两对，翻前打出有效筹码20%，不跟all吧。硬要说的话20%少了点，但当时我300BB，他150BB。翻前想打出三分之一不容易。

PokerStars Hand #20116131607: Omaha Pot Limit  ($0.02/$0.05) - 2021/11/29 12:34:18
Table 'RushAndCash121607' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: a1e58f4 ($7.73 in chips)
Seat 2: 42597f0d ($4.99 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero ($14.59 in chips)
Seat 4: e3f130cb ($8.09 in chips)
Seat 5: 2fceb356 ($1.6 in chips)
Seat 6: 207dac0a ($4.63 in chips)
42597f0d: posts small blind $0.02
Hero: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [2s As Ac 7s]
e3f130cb: folds
2fceb356: folds
207dac0a: folds
a1e58f4: raises $0.05 to $0.1
42597f0d: folds
Hero: raises $0.05 to $0.15
a1e58f4: raises $0.32 to $0.47
Hero: raises $0.96 to $1.43
a1e58f4: calls $0.96
*** FLOP *** [Jh 7d 2c]
Hero: bets $2.88
a1e58f4: raises $3.42 to $6.3 and is all-in
Hero: calls $3.42
a1e58f4: shows [6s Qh Jd Jc] (Three Jacks)
Hero: shows [2s As Ac 7s] (Pair of Sevens and Pair of Twos)
a1e58f4: get an all-in insurance (premium ($0/$0.3/$0) for ($0/$3.6/$0) - (Mandatory/Main/Sub))
*** TURN *** [Jh 7d 2c] [Kh]
a1e58f4: pay premium of all-in insurance ($0.3)
a1e58f4: get an all-in insurance (premium ($0/$0.5/$0) for ($0/$6/$0) - (Mandatory/Main/Sub))
*** RIVER *** [Jh 7d 2c Kh] [Th]
a1e58f4: pay premium of all-in insurance ($0.5)
*** SHOWDOWN ***
a1e58f4 collected $15.26 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $15.48 | Rake $0.15 | Jackpot $0.07 | Bingo $0
Board [Jh 7d 2c Kh Th]
Seat 1: a1e58f4 (button) showed [6s Qh Jd Jc] and won ($15.26) with Three Jacks, AII Premium ($0.8)
Seat 2: 42597f0d (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Hero (big blind) showed [2s As Ac 7s] and lost with Pair of Sevens and Pair of Twos
Seat 4: e3f130cb folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 2fceb356 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: 207dac0a folded before Flop (didn't bet)

亏损榜4，要说有问题的话，翻牌应该打满池？

AAK5双花，翻牌4T8，两张红桃，我没有红桃，转牌T，两组同花听牌我都没有，但没关系，对手靠T三条赢得。这手我翻牌前打出有效筹码的28%，翻牌圈他过牌我下半池，转牌圈他过牌我继续下注他跟all。


PokerStars Hand #20116047208: Omaha Pot Limit  ($0.02/$0.05) - 2021/11/29 09:59:28
Table 'RushAndCash117208' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: d762624a ($5.11 in chips)
Seat 2: d5f3293 ($6.88 in chips)
Seat 3: 215df9df ($5 in chips)
Seat 4: 3dc9e6a ($5.07 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($10.1 in chips)
Seat 6: 55de1d27 ($5.06 in chips)
d5f3293: posts small blind $0.02
215df9df: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ac Kc Ad 5d]
3dc9e6a: folds
Hero: raises $0.05 to $0.1
55de1d27: folds
d762624a: folds
d5f3293: calls $0.08
215df9df: raises $0.3 to $0.4
Hero: raises $0.9 to $1.3
d5f3293: folds
215df9df: calls $0.9
*** FLOP *** [4h Th 8s]
215df9df: checks
Hero: bets $1.35
215df9df: calls $1.35
*** TURN *** [4h Th 8s] [Ts]
215df9df: checks
Hero: bets $2.7
215df9df: calls $2.35 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.35) returned to Hero
Hero: shows [Ac Kc Ad 5d] (Pair of Aces and Pair of Tens)
215df9df: shows [Kh Ks 3h Tc] (Three Tens)
*** RIVER *** [4h Th 8s Ts] [2s]
*** SHOWDOWN ***
215df9df collected $9.88 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $10.1 | Rake $0.15 | Jackpot $0.07 | Bingo $0
Board [4h Th 8s Ts 2s]
Seat 1: d762624a (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: d5f3293 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: 215df9df (big blind) showed [Kh Ks 3h Tc] and won ($9.88) with Three Tens
Seat 4: 3dc9e6a folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Hero showed [Ac Kc Ad 5d] and lost with Pair of Aces and Pair of Tens
Seat 6: 55de1d27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

我还有个问题就是AAXX，翻前打出三分之一，两人跟注，翻后一人下注，一人弃牌，这时候要不要无条件跟他推呢？
或者翻牌后短筹码推了，另一个深筹码跟了，这时候我们要不要无视短筹码的动作。
我是前位行动，中位行动的时候怎么办。
总之AAXX的三人大底池让我很恐惧，除了三人筹码差不多，前面两个推了的时候我知道该弃牌，其他都是眼一闭推了拉到。

哈哈，同问同问，最近玩PLO小比赛，出局最多的时候也是AAXX，1.短码只有10个BB，这时候好像弃说不过去，但进去，但凡3人底池，过半概率出局 2.深筹码的时候被3更不可能弃牌，3BET的底池，翻后再弃也说不过去，只能打光，不出意外，很大概率损失惨重

Thui2021 发表于 2021-11-29 23:39
我还有个问题就是AAXX，翻前打出三分之一，两人跟注，翻后一人下注，一人弃牌，这时候要不要无条件跟他推呢 ...

简单的回答是，跟
复杂一点的回答是，看位置，后位你可以适当考虑翻牌面和你底牌的关联，再决定是否跟，前位直接推，不用想太多
更复杂一点的回答是
3人底池，一人4张牌，可以看作是2副牌的德州扑克，SPR不能用绝对值，要考虑等效性，这里绝对SPR=2/3
2/3*2*3=4，有效SPR最大为4 ，最小用短码玩家的筹码来算，足够短的情况下，可以无视你打德州扑克前位还是推，后位你要看你的配牌，就是除去AA你手上还有什么，和flop的关联性
前位中位玩家的倾向，他们一个推一个跟，好比是2个短码推，2个长码接，你还有的算边池
如果你的AAXX底牌不是和翻牌面毛关系都没有，就还是应该跟，除非有能足够说服你弃牌的条件发生

rahj 发表于 2021-12-1 00:19
简单的回答是，跟
复杂一点的回答是，看位置，后位你可以适当考虑翻牌面和你底牌的关联，再决定是否跟，前 ...

嗯嗯，和我想的差不多

子敬 发表于 2021-11-30 08:28
哈哈，同问同问，最近玩PLO小比赛，出局最多的时候也是AAXX，1.短码只有10个BB，这时候好像弃说不过去，但 ...

1 只有10个bb，拿AAXX，不考虑配牌，面对两个10%出局概率超过50%，也就是接近一半概率筹码变30bb，那么应不应该进去
看money EV呀，看钱圈结构，不同比赛阶段这个回答不是一概而论的，比如泡沫期，这丢牌有啥说不过去，一丢掉AA就会死？那别打比赛了
2 不出意外，很大概率损失惨重，你这完全印象流，很大概率是多大概率呢？既然你能掐会算，直接丢掉AA呀，还跟3bet干嘛，浪费筹码吗
虽然我不建议你玩比赛，不过出局最多的时候也是AAXX，是不是也说明你打PLO太紧了，只有拿AAXX才拼命？

rahj 发表于 2021-12-2 20:24
1 只有10个bb，拿AAXX，不考虑配牌，面对两个10%出局概率超过50%，也就是接近一半概率筹码变30bb，那么应 ...

这位兄弟很喜欢评头论足，一副大内高手的样子，不知道这位大鲨拿了多少大赛PLO冠军，还是每百手盈利30BB+?又或者现金已经打100/200刀盲注+？但想必这种口气，也必是高手，以后我等鱼好好学习您的打法和高见，以及瞻仰您的好成绩。