Zoom专题讨论

BBlifego 发表于 2018-1-9 16:19
这里河牌over bet是什么考虑？

在翻牌villain donk against UTG,可见对位置的理解不深,通常采取这种非常规打法的都是weak players.  Weak并不是指打得弱,也可能打得很凶,但是整体实力弱.
由于没有历史,我不知道他在这里是借助牌面纯诈唬,还是保护性的probe bet 77-66,还是value bet 76.98s,9Xs还是翻前弱打口袋对,翻后没帽子一通瞎凶的纯鱼.


转牌对我非常有利, V所有的顶对,超对,两对基本全部drawing dead, 而且整个flop的donk range在这里基本停不下来,几乎是automatic 2nd barrel.  有时45s在这里suck out,但是组合太少,并不是特别担心.  

河牌也非常有利,45s和A5s都可以完全排除了, 基本上到这里我认为他不会有顺子和3条.  他过牌,  绝大多数时候,V会check call,  所以我认为他会很大可能跟注50-66%的下注, 但我仍然考虑更大的下注是否更+EV.

我在翻牌跟注,可以用很广的范围去缠打AdTd,AcTc,AsTs+, 66-77,  他也许认为大多数时候会加注超对. 仅仅跟注显示我的整体范围可能比较弱.
转牌他放心的开枪,我仍然跟注, 继续保留了一部分后门花和顺子听牌.  

对方的范围基本capped,坚果很少.   再一个由于前两条街只是跟注,他不可能读出我的牌有AA这么强.   此外我有As,可以rep 很多听花的诈唬. overbet 看上去非常bluffy. V也许会过度解读,从而跟注范围放宽到66-77,78之类这些可能弃牌给正常尺寸的牌.  另外万一对手有TTJJ这种绝对不会弃牌的也可以拿到更多价值.    我没有下注2X是怕太大打走9T,97s.     

V认为我的范围太弱,肯定是在诈唬, 从而诈唬回来, 我没有意料到.  但考虑以上因素,我绝对不会弃牌的.  如果他亮出99,88,55  那我把他标记成高手.   只要不是这3组牌就把他标鱼.

BBlifego 发表于 2018-1-9 16:19
这里河牌over bet是什么考虑？

今天PS完全卡死,打不了.   灌点水.

记得前几天,我QQ翻牌中4条,你AA转牌中A那手牌吧.  那手牌把我的人品耗尽.

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 101.4 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 10.99, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 92)
SB: 264.84 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 19.64, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 56)
Hero (BB): 384.08 BB
UTG: 87.2 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
MP: 103.8 BB (VPIP: 17.53, PFR: 10.36, 3Bet Preflop: 5.43, Hands: 257)
CO: 64.76 BB (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 34)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has  A A

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 9 BB, Hero raises to 26 BB, fold, SB raises to 264.84 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 238.84 BB

Flop: (530.68 BB, 2 players)  J 5 K

Turn: (530.68 BB, 2 players)  3

River: (530.68 BB, 2 players)  4

SB shows  K K  (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 17%, Flop 90%, Turn 95%)
Hero shows  A A  (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 83%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)
SB wins 522.68 BB



PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 146.52 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
SB: 104.64 BB (VPIP: 23.45, PFR: 16.98, 3Bet Preflop: 4.08, Hands: 385)
BB: 113.88 BB (VPIP: 21.59, PFR: 14.61, 3Bet Preflop: 3.92, Hands: 945)
UTG: 72.08 BB (VPIP: 22.08, PFR: 2.60, 3Bet Preflop: 2.78, Hands: 78)
MP: 130.64 BB (VPIP: 15.51, PFR: 9.51, 3Bet Preflop: 4.44, Hands: 566)
Hero (CO): 275.28 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has  9 9

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 4.4 BB, BTN calls 4.4 BB, fold, fold, UTG calls 3.4 BB

Flop: (14.6 BB, 3 players)  5 8 7
UTG checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 13.96 BB, fold, Hero calls 13.96 BB

Turn: (42.52 BB, 2 players)  5
Hero checks, BTN bets 13 BB, Hero calls 13 BB

River: (68.52 BB, 2 players)  9
Hero checks, BTN bets 71 BB, Hero raises to 207.92 BB, BTN calls 44.16 BB and is all-in

Hero shows  9 9  (Full House, Nines full of Fives)
(Pre 81%, Flop 22%, Turn 0%)
BTN shows  5 5  (Four of a Kind, Fives)
(Pre 19%, Flop 78%, Turn 100%)
BTN wins 290.84 BB








PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 243.88 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 17.22, 3Bet Preflop: 3.95, Hands: 216)
SB: 175.24 BB (VPIP: 27.97, PFR: 19.49, 3Bet Preflop: 1.64, Hands: 123)
Hero (BB): 341.52 BB
UTG: 154.88 BB (VPIP: 25.33, PFR: 20.76, 3Bet Preflop: 8.49, Hands: 953)
MP: 157.44 BB (VPIP: 19.69, PFR: 16.14, 3Bet Preflop: 10.78, Hands: 261)
CO: 83.88 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has  2 3

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 2.6 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, SB calls 6.4 BB

Flop: (18 BB, 2 players)  9 8 Q
SB checks, Hero bets 11.36 BB, SB calls 11.36 BB

Turn: (40.72 BB, 2 players)  7
SB checks, Hero bets 12.84 BB, SB raises to 37 BB, Hero calls 24.16 BB

River: (114.72 BB, 2 players)  J
SB bets 44 BB, Hero raises to 241.56 BB, SB calls 73.88 BB and is all-in

Hero shows  2 3  (Flush, Queen High)
(Pre 33%, Flop 15%, Turn 0%)
SB shows  K J  (Flush, King High)
(Pre 67%, Flop 85%, Turn 100%)
SB wins 342.48 BB


这牌真是该死,V 在sb open 60%,F3 65%,琢磨着任意2张牌可以3bet,结果就赶上了.  不作就不会死,  所以啊用A2/3s去3bet才是王道.

本月输得最大的3手牌.  看着都心疼

傻傻的鱼 发表于 2018-1-9 19:32
在翻牌villain donk against UTG,可见对位置的理解不深,通常采取这种非常规打法的都是weak players.  Wea ...

他这个河牌reraise实在没看懂，河牌over bet范围实际已经比较极化了，他raise 咋呼能打走的牌大部分也能call赢。河牌我可能会下个小注，正常SB cold call的范围几乎就是对子和同色高张，这里他set还是挺多的。不过他秀个K9o还是挺大跌眼镜的。一般sb秀出这种cold call的我一概标记鱼....话说到SB 这个位置，目前体会对抗CO/BTN用3bet fold的策略还是很简单实用的（看很多reg的视频，他们会mix call，我感觉略复杂，不太容易操作）。但是对抗EP/MP这两个位置这种策略感觉比较尴尬，目前用的策略3bet和cold call分割的还是很清晰的，对手可能不清楚，但是我自己很清楚，打起来非常心虚

傻傻的鱼 发表于 2018-1-9 20:14
今天PS完全卡死,打不了.   灌点水.

记得前几天,我QQ翻牌中4条,你AA转牌中A那手牌吧.  那手牌把我的人品 ...

那牌我印象深刻，打完就懊悔，还不如翻牌前推了，还能赚不少all in EV...100多手牌感觉看3bet的数据不是很有价值啊，我记得以前吴广德写过一个小文章，这种小样本的数据也就vpip和PFR可以参考下，3bet数据样本量要求还是比较高的。话说回来23s 偶尔3bet一下我觉得还可以啊

BBlifego 发表于 2018-1-9 21:05
他这个河牌reraise实在没看懂，河牌over bet范围实际已经比较极化了，他raise 咋呼能打走的牌大部分也能c ...

翻牌UTGcbet频率很高，btn可能跟注，真set可以很舒服地xr，他donk 相当于block掉一部分。转牌5block掉一部分set，不痛不痒的两枪然后check river又block掉一部分。  我当时有点担心他44诈唬到river击中顺手xr，或者67overplay，完全没考虑flopset。

sb vs utg/mp 我感觉不值得花时间去搞，没有油水，意思意思抵抗下就行了。 主要还是搞co btn 和bb。

BBlifego 发表于 2018-1-9 21:12
那牌我印象深刻，打完就懊悔，还不如翻牌前推了，还能赚不少all in EV...100多手牌感觉看3bet的数据不是 ...

我倒是觉得preflop raise数据100来手做不得数，反而3bet数据对手数要求不高， 比如在sb 7次里有两次3bet，我在btnco基本任何Ax都4bet回去。

傻傻的鱼 发表于 2018-1-10 00:07
翻牌UTGcbet频率很高，btn可能跟注，真set可以很舒服地xr，他donk 相当于block掉一部分。转牌5block掉一 ...

reg在多人池前位lead出来的牌，还是非常强的，不过这人不是reg，另说。多人池一般比较直白，UTG miss flop的话大部分是个chk，这种潮湿面放一张免费牌出来非常危险，这可能是大部分lead set的人的想法。最近搞了两个pio script，一个是SB vs  BB，一个是SB 3bet vs BTN Flat。还没怎么深入的去看，虽然都是OOP，目测一下两种情形SB flop cbet频率差的非常多。

BBlifego 发表于 2018-1-10 01:11
reg在多人池前位lead出来的牌，还是非常强的，不过这人不是reg，另说。多人池一般比较直白，UTG miss flo ...

我不太喜欢在这种情况下河牌下小注, 因为如果V采用正常的line,只是xc顶对,他的损失和Donk两条街xcriver小注的损失大致是一样的,甚至有可能DONK还少输了. 那么是不是相当于他通过DONK抵销了位置劣势,完整地实现了他的EQUITY.    剥削他就无从谈起了.  

除非对方的范围是非常极化的,那才可能考虑过牌或下一个小的价值注.   


我自己的donk是这样打的.

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 384.88 BB (VPIP: 22.72, PFR: 17.28, 3Bet Preflop: 9.82, Hands: 530)
SB: 215.04 BB (VPIP: 22.15, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 5.35, Hands: 1,388)
Hero (BB): 468.08 BB
UTG: 81.56 BB (VPIP: 36.46, PFR: 17.71, 3Bet Preflop: 4.88, Hands: 98)
MP: 165.72 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
CO: 118.16 BB (VPIP: 18.30, PFR: 13.73, 3Bet Preflop: 2.65, Hands: 313)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has  7 7

fold, MP raises to 2.64 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.64 BB

Flop: (5.68 BB, 2 players)  3 4 7
Hero bets 5.44 BB, MP calls 5.44 BB

Turn: (16.56 BB, 2 players)  2
Hero bets 29 BB, MP calls 29 BB

River: (74.56 BB, 2 players)  5
Hero checks, MP checks

Hero shows  7 7  (Three of a Kind, Sevens)
(Pre 66%, Flop 60%, Turn 23%)
MP shows  5 A  (Straight, Five High)
(Pre 35%, Flop 40%, Turn 77%)
MP wins 71.2 BB


我的范围是完全极化的,v的范围有太多A, 所以在河牌我准备xf. V哪怕拿着这么强的牌也只能跟着过牌.  说明这次Donk赚到了.
如果河牌是空白或者成对. 继续OVERBET.

我的原则,DONK多数时候是极化的, 大部分要跟对手打光.

傻傻的鱼 发表于 2018-1-10 11:49
我不太喜欢在这种情况下河牌下小注, 因为如果V采用正常的line,只是xc顶对,他的损失和Donk两条街xcriver小 ...

老哥关于donk极化的观点我是认同的，对于donk过多顶对的玩家，我觉得也可以从另外一个角度剥削：chk范围太弱，可以bet更多的牌。这点有点类似IP VS PFR，几乎的所有的低级别玩家（包括我自己）在很多牌面都会过高估计自己的优势，cbet过多导致chk范围非常非常弱

BBlifego 发表于 2018-1-10 12:08
老哥关于donk极化的观点我是认同的，对于donk过多顶对的玩家，我觉得也可以从另外一个角度剥削：chk范围 ...

继续发和di rossi81今天打的牌.

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 377.76 BB (VPIP: 19.00, PFR: 15.66, 3Bet Preflop: 14.94, Hands: 2,600)
SB: 88.12 BB (VPIP: 41.03, PFR: 25.64, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 40)
BB: 343.56 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 36)
Hero (UTG): 100 BB
MP: 58.12 BB (VPIP: 43.75, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 16)
CO: 137.6 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has  Q Q

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, CO calls 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (10.4 BB, 3 players)  J 5 6
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets 9.12 BB, Hero raises to 37.28 BB, fold, BTN calls 28.16 BB

Turn: (84.96 BB, 2 players)  Q
Hero bets 59.72 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 59.72 BB

River: (204.4 BB, 2 players)  9

Hero shows  Q Q  (Three of a Kind, Queens)
(Pre 80%, Flop 54%, Turn 82%)
BTN shows  5 3  (Flush, Jack High)
(Pre 20%, Flop 46%, Turn 18%)
BTN wins 196.4 BB


对这人失去兴趣了, 估计这货是在一个大上风期.


今天set和flush都糟了殃.


PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 229.52 BB (VPIP: 27.78, PFR: 21.88, 3Bet Preflop: 8.18, Hands: 294)
SB: 114.04 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BB: 63.64 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
UTG: 106.4 BB (VPIP: 18.06, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 74)
MP: 276.16 BB (VPIP: 15.56, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 48)
Hero (CO): 199.56 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has  8 8

UTG raises to 2.48 BB, fold, Hero calls 2.48 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 1.48 BB

Flop: (7.84 BB, 3 players)  T 9 8
BB bets 3.76 BB, UTG calls 3.76 BB, Hero calls 3.76 BB

Turn: (19.12 BB, 3 players)  9
BB bets 9.12 BB, UTG calls 9.12 BB, Hero calls 9.12 BB

River: (46.48 BB, 3 players)  A
BB checks, UTG bets 30 BB, Hero raises to 134.4 BB, fold, UTG calls 61.04 BB and is all-in

Hero shows  8 8  (Full House, Eights full of Nines)
(Pre 20%, Flop 87%, Turn 91%)
UTG shows  A A  (Full House, Aces full of Nines)
(Pre 80%, Flop 13%, Turn 9%)
UTG wins 220.56 BB



PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 170.24 BB
SB: 105.6 BB (VPIP: 28.26, PFR: 16.30, 3Bet Preflop: 4.00, Hands: 96)
BB: 108.68 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
UTG: 116.76 BB (VPIP: 18.91, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 6.84, Hands: 640)
MP: 139.72 BB (VPIP: 29.27, PFR: 20.33, 3Bet Preflop: 1.61, Hands: 128)
CO: 69.2 BB (VPIP: 34.55, PFR: 16.36, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 57)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has  9 J

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.28 BB, fold, BB calls 1.28 BB

Flop: (4.96 BB, 2 players)  3 3 7
BB bets 1 BB, Hero raises to 5.44 BB, BB raises to 9.88 BB, Hero calls 4.44 BB

Turn: (24.72 BB, 2 players)  6
BB bets 96.52 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 96.52 BB

River: (217.76 BB, 2 players)  7

BB shows  3 2  (Full House, Threes full of Sevens)
(Pre 32%, Flop 74%, Turn 23%)
Hero shows  9 J  (Flush, Jack High)
(Pre 68%, Flop 26%, Turn 77%)
BB wins 209.76 BB





PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 151.16 BB (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 87)
Hero (SB): 102.68 BB
BB: 220.32 BB (VPIP: 21.15, PFR: 15.70, 3Bet Preflop: 8.27, Hands: 378)
UTG: 154.12 BB (VPIP: 20.41, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 50)
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 7.69, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
CO: 620.48 BB (VPIP: 17.89, PFR: 8.42, 3Bet Preflop: 2.94, Hands: 96)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has  8 8

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.24 BB, Hero calls 1.84 BB, BB calls 1.24 BB

Flop: (6.72 BB, 3 players)  J Q 8
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN bets 3.2 BB, Hero raises to 16 BB, fold, BTN calls 12.8 BB

Turn: (38.72 BB, 2 players)  3
Hero bets 24.4 BB, BTN raises to 70 BB, Hero raises to 84.44 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 14.44 BB

River: (207.6 BB, 2 players)  7

Hero shows  8 8  (Three of a Kind, Eights)
(Pre 54%, Flop 35%, Turn 23%)
BTN shows  T 9  (Straight, Queen High)
(Pre 46%, Flop 65%, Turn 77%)
BTN wins 199.6 BB




PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 19.32, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 11.36, Hands: 90)
SB: 165.48 BB (VPIP: 19.32, PFR: 17.05, 3Bet Preflop: 6.90, Hands: 90)
BB: 128.32 BB (VPIP: 21.37, PFR: 12.98, 3Bet Preflop: 4.00, Hands: 134)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 27.78, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
Hero (MP): 145.36 BB
CO: 126.72 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has  K Q

fold, Hero raises to 2.28 BB, CO calls 2.28 BB, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (5.96 BB, 2 players)  A 5 J
Hero bets 3.76 BB, CO calls 3.76 BB

Turn: (13.48 BB, 2 players)  T
Hero checks, CO bets 5 BB, Hero raises to 27.88 BB, CO raises to 120.68 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 92.8 BB

River: (254.84 BB, 2 players)  K

Hero shows  K Q  (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 71%, Flop 55%, Turn 0%)
CO shows  K 4  (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 29%, Flop 45%, Turn 100%)
CO wins 246.84 BB

还有这手打错了,  AF控制不好的话容易出这种错.   如果Kc在手中的话这样打可能是正确的.  要多抠细节.