我想问一下打LIVE POKER的同学给DEALER小费的情况

floorman的判罚是有问题的。亮牌本身没问题，亮牌没跟注也没问题，问题是他在没跟注的情况下released his hand，这通常被认为是弃牌的意思，而在这种情况下他没有阻止发牌员收他的牌就已经构成弃牌。

如果我是你的话，我会要求见supervisor的，能不能改回来是一回事情，但你必须让这个floorman明白，他不可以这样做，他应该受到惩罚]

问题在于，对手 声称自己说了CALL，只是DEALER 没听见。
但他根本没有推筹码进去，也许他的确说了CALL，但这是个无从查证的事情。

当然，照常理，从他的角度看，这个牌完全是可以CALL的，当时我牌面确实落后，不想让人觉得＂利用DEALER 的失误来挽回自己的损失＂。
所以我没有坚持争执。看了老朱的回复，才觉得自己也许错了。

问题是，如果下次我们换了个位置呢， 我能保障我的WINNING HAND 不因为这样的意外而成为DEAD HAND？

因为LIVE 赌场的规则是很严格的:

按照规定，你有义务保护自己的底牌。即使你的牌已经TURNED FACE UP，如果由于你或者别人（即使是DEALER）的意外接触到了桌上的明牌或者死牌，例如你亮牌时把牌摔到桌面上，你的牌叠在BORAD CARD上，那么你的牌就死了，自动MUCK。别人或者DEALER 不会负任何责任。

我见过这样的例子，所以印象深刻。

如果按照这个规定，那么对手要么算FOLD，要么如果算CALL，他的HAND都已经被FACE DOWN 而且混进了死牌堆，
应该成为DEAD HAND，他应该再赔给我１００＄。

出现这样一件事。在第四街时dealer burned twice，所以本来我应该拿到6但却拿到的是10，我立刻指出这个问题，floorman被叫来，这时坐在我右手的Francisco说了一句（一个当时东部的big player,后来逐渐淡出人们的视线）"I want this six"表明不肯退让，结果floorman就判发牌有效。当时同在桌上的Miami john 和已经过世的Ken Flaton都提出异议，但floorman还是维持了原判。我要求见supervisor但被告知我不可以stop the game，但我坚持在supervisor到来之前不采取任何行动。floorman也知道自己理亏，一直耐心地跟我商量，但我觉得这根本就不是可商量的事。最后floorman把我的牌fold了，其实那牌拿到10以后我也没法打了。supervisor过来后听了我们双方的解释后说跟我说：I am sorry，but I can not chang it back. 我回答说，but there is one thing you can do. I am going to the bathroom. If I see him here when I come back I will post all my experience on the internet and send a copy to Donald Trump. This man is not running a fair game and I do not want to see him the rest of my life. 等我上完厕所回来已经换了一个新floorman，而且在剩下的十多天直到比赛结束，那家伙也没出现在top section，我注意到他一直在下面的section工作。

Tis is the same scenery with the movie "LUCK U"...the actor is playing a Satellite  SNG, last hand heads up, 10 10 VS 8 8 pre-flop all in , he wins with 10 10, and get a ticket and left the table.
but the opponent found that dealer didn't burn for the river, so he called the floor man, and floor man  ask actor to come back and ask dealer to re-deal, and it came a ' 8 ' at  river...and actor lost and ticket was issue to his opponent ......

don't forget I already had two 1k chips in the pot. Don't you think the intention was clear with two 1k chips and two 5k chips in the pot? what about the multiple chip rule?

[quote:mp9b45zc]顺便给你提一个我在wsop亲身经历的案例：
limit holdem, blinds 2000/4000, 我在SB,放进去两个1000的筹码。button raised（8000），这时候我扔进去两个5000的筹码，BB扔牌，这时候button认为我是call不是raise。 怎么判？

I think button is right,  this is just like you put in a 10,000 chip. If you don't verbally declare the 'RAISE', then it is just call.  

Since: You need to put 6,000 more to call the raise, a single 5, 000 chip can not do this call.   so Every chip is Essentially necessary to make the Call.

if you put two 5,000 chip, and one 1,000$ chip in, that that could be justified as Raise. since clearly one of chips is not Essentially necessary to make the Call.[/quote:mp9b45zc]

No, it is not the same scenario. In my case, it was correctable while for the one you mentioned the game was over. There was only one thing in common, both floormen made the wrong decisions.

[quote:2mttopyo]出现这样一件事。在第四街时dealer burned twice，所以本来我应该拿到6但却拿到的是10，我立刻指出这个问题，floorman被叫来，这时坐在我右手的Francisco说了一句（一个当时东部的big player,后来逐渐淡出人们的视线）"I want this six"表明不肯退让，结果floorman就判发牌有效。当时同在桌上的Miami john 和已经过世的Ken Flaton都提出异议，但floorman还是维持了原判。我要求见supervisor但被告知我不可以stop the game，但我坚持在supervisor到来之前不采取任何行动。floorman也知道自己理亏，一直耐心地跟我商量，但我觉得这根本就不是可商量的事。最后floorman把我的牌fold了，其实那牌拿到10以后我也没法打了。supervisor过来后听了我们双方的解释后说跟我说：I am sorry，but I can not chang it back. 我回答说，but there is one thing you can do. I am going to the bathroom. If I see him here when I come back I will post all my experience on the internet and send a copy to Donald Trump. This man is not running a fair game and I do not want to see him the rest of my life. 等我上完厕所回来已经换了一个新floorman，而且在剩下的十多天直到比赛结束，那家伙也没出现在top section，我注意到他一直在下面的section工作。

Tis is the same scenery with the movie "LUCK U"...the actor is playing a Satellite  SNG, last hand heads up, 10 10 VS 8 8 pre-flop all in , he wins with 10 10, and get a ticket and left the table.
but the opponent found that dealer didn't burn for the river, so he called the floor man, and floor man  ask actor to come back and ask dealer to re-deal, and it came a ' 8 ' at  river...and actor lost and ticket was issue to his opponent ......[/quote:2mttopyo]

[quote:19s3r5d2]顺便给你提一个我在wsop亲身经历的案例：
limit holdem, blinds 2000/4000, 我在SB,放进去两个1000的筹码。button raised（8000），这时候我扔进去两个5000的筹码，BB扔牌，这时候button认为我是call不是raise。 怎么判？

I think button is right,  this is just like you put in a 10,000 chip. If you don't verbally declare the 'RAISE', then it is just call.  

Since: You need to put 6,000 more to call the raise, a single 5, 000 chip can not do this call.   so Every chip is Essentially necessary to make the Call.

if you put two 5,000 chip, and one 1,000$ chip in, that that could be justified as Raise. since clearly one of chips is not Essentially necessary to make the Call.[/quote:19s3r5d2]

不对呀 RIch的意思是他没收回那两个一千的chips呢， 所以Rich是放出total 12k (5k+5k+1k+1k)

一不留神，大家在我的带领下都变跑题大王了，呵呵。

好在讨论的事情还都跟live poker有关，还相当有趣，长见识了。 [s:146]

如果你RAISE，两个BLIND都FOLD，没有FLOP，这种情况你给小费吗。

好象没有人回答大毛这个问题，我虽然很少打live，但我看到在这种情况下大家都是不给小费的。只收了盲注那几块钱，有什么好给的呢。 [s:152]

也许是性格吧，不久后，我又在这个赌场打个锦标赛，（是$36买入的那种），说是锦标赛，其实就12人坐一桌（前三有钱），dealer还是上次那个中年妇女，这种比赛我没打过，没经验，盲注涨的比网上的turbo还快。剩四人时我筹码还是最多，位于大盲时我犯了个大错，拿kx call别人的allin。输掉这把，我成了第四，但和第三相差不多。接着我拿着ax,老大，老三和我三家allin,这时问题来了:老大牌最好，赢了这吧，按网上的规则，我第四，无钱，可这个dealer不知是有意还是无意（希望她是有意）说我牌比老三好，我第三，后来经理来了，也支持dealer，这里经理好像都向着dealer，结果最后我第三。

yongsheng人品超好，dealer向着你是正常的。我到现在还记得你在网上打牌筹钱给你朋友做手术的事，太让人感动了。还有两年前你捉弄我而发的那个搞笑[抢钱MM]贴子，前年我生日时你PS出来的感人图片，我全部都印象深刻呢。你常说在桌上碰到我，而我从来不知道你是哪个ID。虽然我们私底下并无任何交集，但每次在论坛看到你的名字我都觉得很亲切，在城里又见到你，我真的特别高兴！ [s:146]

don't forget I already had two 1k chips in the pot. Don't you think the intention was clear with two 1k chips and two 5k chips in the pot? what about the multiple chip rule?
    youngtercel 写道:
        顺便给你提一个我在wsop亲身经历的案例：
        limit holdem, blinds 2000/4000, 我在SB,放进去两个1000的筹码。button raised（8000），这时候我扔进去两个5000的筹码，BB扔牌，这时候button认为我是call不是raise。 怎么判？
    I think button is right, this is just like you put in a 10,000 chip. If you don't verbally declare the 'RAISE', then it is just call.
    Since: You need to put 6,000 more to call the raise, a single 5, 000 chip can not do this call. so Every chip is Essentially necessary to make the Call.
    if you put two 5,000 chip, and one 1,000$ chip in, that that could be justified as Raise. since clearly one of chips is not Essentially necessary to make the Call.

don't forget I already had two 1k chips in the pot

This does not count, it just like you put another 5$ chip on top of your small blind 1$,when is your turn to act. it is just a call

Although there is no explicit text in WSOP rule about the multiple chip rule,In my understanding, it will be justified as a call:
Every Chip of the multiple chip a player put in at that time is essentially necessary to make the call;       No matter total value of chips is enough for a raise or not.

关于这点,我想原则是这样的,在没有口头声明的情况下,

如果你投入筹码的方式和数量可以legally 理解为Call或者Raise,那么将被理解为Call

如果你投入筹码的方式和数量不能legally 理解为Call, 意思是除了call所必要的筹码以外,*明显*还有其他的筹码,那么将被理解为RAISE.                             此时,如果筹码总面值超过Call(显然), 但不足legally  Raise,那么将援引前款关于声明RAISE而推出筹码不够的情况,要求补足*最小*raise所需要的筹码.  如果筹码总面值足以构成raise,那raise就成立.

当然还有赌场有更严格的规定,那就是除非你声明Raise,否则都以call 论,但你投入的筹码成为死筹码,
假如后位玩家raise 或者re-raise, 你将被迫至少Call,当然 你可以re-raise.

1).如果preflop一次拿出一个$5,就是call;一次拿出两个$5,就是raise;
2).如果朱兄一次拿出两个$5000,就是call;一次拿出两个$5000加两个$1000,应看成是raise;
3).如果台上的两个$1000不拿回来,再加两个$5000,应等同于2).

"just like you put another 5$ chip on top of your small blind 1$,"这种情况在我打的赌场应看作是raise.如果是call,应该把那个$1拿回来.