关于omaha的专帖

super system2 是super system 1的升级版还是？
两本有必要都看吗？ 还是只看一本super system2就可以？

super system 是一本很古老的书，第一版出来时论坛上的很多人还没有出生。这是一本里程碑式的扑克书，很多年被当作是poker bible。
super system 2是几年前出的书，同样是由Doyal Brunson纠集一帮大腕按当年的模式写的。不过书出来后反响平平，远不如当年的super system.

super system 太老了，如果想了解扑克历史还是要看的，否则很多扑克书的内容都更完善。
super system2很多地方写得太过潦草，不适于当教科书用，做辅助读物更合适一些。

喜欢楼主的这一贴，在学习经验的同时又有很多乐趣！谢谢！

[quote="justend":b8fa0o2x]super system2 是super system 1的升级版还是？
两本有必要都看吗？ 还是只看一本super system2就可以？

super system 是一本很古老的书，第一版出来时论坛上的很多人还没有出生。这是一本里程碑式的扑克书，很多年被当作是poker bible。
super system 2是几年前出的书，同样是由Doyal Brunson纠集一帮大腕按当年的模式写的。不过书出来后反响平平，远不如当年的super system.

super system 太老了，如果想了解扑克历史还是要看的，否则很多扑克书的内容都更完善。
super system2很多地方写得太过潦草，不适于当教科书用，做辅助读物更合适一些。[/quote:b8fa0o2x]


多谢rich..既然这样还是先看电子版吧，暂不考虑购买

我老婆,打omaha有半年了,成绩不俗,现在她对NL已没啥兴趣,
但是,我一直对omaha没有好感,总感觉太复杂!

plo的刺激，的确会让人对NL hold'em失去兴趣的，建设兄可以尝试一下。

very glad to see this thread. first I would like to appologize for not writing in chinese. never typed chinese before and would probably take me days to type what I want to say.

rich, I know you are an expert in O8, and had wanted to ask you some Qs about it. met you breifly at last year's wsop, when you were at the final table of O8/S8, I was watching along with Lao Dong. didn't run into you this year so I will use this thread to ask.

I started with Limit holdem, then switched to no limit after about a year and a half. started playing Omaha early last year, with nolimit getting tougher and PLO might be the game of future. I have played LO8, PLO and PLO8, in both cash game and tournaments. probably spent most time in PLO cash game in the last year or so, from 2/4 to 5/10 on fulltilt mostly, occasionally higher. also played LO8 on  PS when there is a full ring game at higher limit.

I have read most of the books on Omaha. I agree Hwang's book would be too tight for tournament. I think it is written for deepstack full ring cash game, especially in casinos ( I played with him in st. louis once, my first live PLO game, and doubled up through him using one of his concepts in the book  [s:146] ). he just published a new one for short-handed PLO ( Advanced Pot-Limit Omaha: Small Ball and Short-Handed Play by Jeff Hwang ). will read it after I am done with Slotboom's new book, also on short-handed PLO. My suggestion for beginners in PLO is to read "Omaha Poker" by Bob Ciaffone first to get the basic idea, then go on to "ot-Limit Omaha Poker" by Jeff Hwang (which also including parts about  LO8 and PLO8) and "Secrets of Short-handed Pot-Limit Omaha " by Rolf Slotboom. since most of the cash game online is 6max now, even lots of the tournaments are switching to 6max, you probably need to read the two new books too.

I have had some success in omaha tournaments, incluing a 12th place finish in this year's wsop in a PLO8, and some top 3 finishes in PLO tournaments, both live and online. seem  a little easier than nolimit holdem, more fishes. (I do pretty good in online nolimit tournaments, but never placed well live, although have only played about 10 live tourney) and have been winning in cash game too. I think there is more money to be made in omaha than in holdem now.

what I need to decide now is which game to concentrate on , and cash or tourney, if you want to potentially make a living out of this? my understanding is:  
1. PLO8 is a game in which good player has a big edge, and the swing is less severe than PLO, and it is a fun game too, the problem being not lots of game online( nonexist live) and usually only at low stakes.
2. Limit O8 is game with least amount of swing, and higher winrate than limit holdem, and relatively easy to be decent at. problem is again not many games online at medium/high stakes, usually shorthanded with some very agreesive players, and only casinos has game above 20/40 outside of tournament time is bellagio.
3. PLO is getting more popular in the states, and games are available at all stakes as high as 200/400. lots of action and gamblers, but the edge is smaller when the money goes in so the swing is huge. I once put $1000 on fulltilt and got to $30000 in a week, then lost it all in two days, playing higher than bankroll suggested  [s:146] . I think the players at the higher stakes (25/50 and up) are not better than lower stakes (2/4-10/20), just have more money and played more aggresive. you need a big bankroll to play the PLO cash game.

I might be totally wrong about all of these, and would like to hear Rich, David or any other experienced players' opinions/advices. thanks in advance.

最近有些朋友发帖子/短信对omaha表示兴趣，我想就开个专帖大家一起讨论。

十年前，omaha和stud不分上下，如今stud已近逐渐蜕变成“老人的游戏”。但当时的omaha主要是两种，limit omaha(high)和limit omaha hi/lo，wsop的omaha比赛也仅限于这两种。

如今pot limit omaha(PLO)取代了limit omaha,而且风头极劲，成为wsop主项之一。limit omaha hi lo生存下来，且仍然是主项之一。两者之间又衍生出PLO hi lo,并挤进wsop，可见其也有一定的市场，尤其是online.

显然这是一个内容很广的帖子。omaha还在不断演变中，尤其是网上玩家作为整体还不像holdem那样成熟，因而策略/风格等最佳获利途径也在演变中。欢迎所有感兴趣的朋友一起讨论。

我现在这里先抛一块砖，转发一位朋友的问题：（我希望这位朋友不要见怪，我这样做也是为了能更好地回答问题，同时也希望有类似问题的朋友通过讨论，共同提高）

1.有什么书推荐吗？关于omaha,omaha 8及HORSE
2.现在omaha和omaha 8哪个更容易获利更多？

WOW！又来了个PRO，热烈欢迎！ [s:146]

瞧瞧人家这进城第一贴多有营养啊！非常感谢。草还没吃呢，牛奶都挤出来了！一定要盖个牛棚好好供起来！ [s:167]  [s:167]  [s:167]

asics你好，

首先恭喜你在今年wsop的plo8上获得第12名的好成绩。你不能打中文真是一件很遗憾的事，你的帖子对o8,plo,plo8的观察很有价值，我翻译一下。这里有不少大陆的朋友，不太习惯英文，翻成中文既是对初学者有帮助，也便于其他人对你的问题进行讨论，希望你不要介意。欢迎你常来，关键的帖子我可以代你翻译。
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非常高兴看到这个帖子。首先对我没有用中文写这个帖子表示歉意，我从来没打过中文，如果用中文写这个帖子可能要花上我几天的工夫。

Rich，我知道你是O8的专家，一直想问你一些问题。去年你在o8/s8final table时，我和你打过招呼，当时我和老董一起观战，今年没有遇到你，所以借这个帖子问一下。

我最初打的是limit holdem，大概一年半以后改打no limit holdem。考虑到nlh越来越难打而PLO的前景很好，从去年初开始打plo. cash game及tournament我都打过O8,PLO8及PLO8。过去一年里多数时间用在plo cash game，多数情况下是fulltilt的2/4到5/10，有时更高。也在ps打limit更高的full ring game。

大多数omaha方面的书我都读过。我同意Hwang的书对于tournament来说过紧了。我觉得这本书是为deepstack full ring cash game,尤其是赌场里这类game写的。（我和他在st.louis打过一次，那是我第一次在赌场打PLO,我用了他书中的概念，在他身上double through) 他最近出了一本书：Advanced Pot-Limit Omaha: Small Ball and Short-Handed Play by Jeff Hwang，是一本针对short-handed PLO的。我现在在读Slotboom的新书，也是关于short-handed PLO的。我给初学者的建议是读Bob Ciaffone的"omaha poker",先掌握一些基本概念，然后读 "ot-Limit Omaha Poker" by Jeff Hwang ，其中也有O8和PLO8，以及Secrets of Short-handed Pot-Limit Omaha " by Rolf Slotboom.因为大多数网上cash game是6max,甚至不少tournament也是6max，你最好读这两本新书。

我在比赛中有一些成绩，包括今年wsop plo8的第12名，以及网上，网下plo的前三名。觉得plo比nlh要容易一些，鱼更多一些。（我在网上的no limit holdem的比赛成绩不错，但网下的比赛成绩不好，不过网下总共也就打了十来次nlh比赛）

我现在需要决定把精力放在哪个game,现金还是比赛，才可能靠打牌生活。我的理解是：
1. plo8中好牌手优势很大，涨落也比plo小，game本身也很有趣。问题是网上牌局不多（网下基本没有），而且主要是小牌局。
2. o8的涨落最小，胜率比limit holdem还高，也相对容易学好。问题是中等牌局在网上不多，而且通常是短手，一些牌手打得也很凶，而赌场除了Bellagio就没有20/40以上的牌局。
3. PLO在美国越来越流行，各级别的牌局到处都是，有的高达200/400，很多action和gamblers,但当钱放进去的时候优势比较小，因而涨落比较大。我有一次在fulltilt，一星期内从1千美元打到3万美元，两天的时间又都输出去了，打得有点超出本钱应该打得级别。我觉得大牌局（25/50以上）的牌手并不比小牌局（2/4-10/20）的牌手水平高，只是钱更多，打得更凶。plo的现金牌局要很大的本钱。

我上面谈的有可能完全是错的，希望听到Rich,David及其它有经验的牌手的意见/建议，先谢谢了。

这个贴子很精彩啊，看得我都想好好学一下omaha了。

以前就听darkillermax讲过omaha很好玩，而且如果打得好的话，赢钱比hold'em快得多。不过一直只懂些皮毛，没仔细研究过。

asics, First of, Welcome to Zhiyoucheng and thank you for posted such a valueable article for our members. As far as having a hard time typing in chinese, I understand PERFECTLY,my chinese is a mess as well.There's no need to appologize, simply because our members are extremely kind and generous.

Last week,had a breif conversation with Jack McClelland(Bellagio's Poker Tournament  Director) about PLO become a widely known game. He's considerring add a big buy-in PLO event in his next tournaments.

I used to hate PLO,this is apparently my worst game, swings were too big for a freshman pro like me at the mid 90's. I love it now!( maybe I am sicker than I think I am?) In facts, I've been working on to improve this game,been playing PLO on FTP for the last two years, still pretty weak but got much better now.

Anyway, Welcome!

非常感谢asics 详尽的介绍，刚在amazon order 了Jeff Hwang的两本书。

个人还是对plo 8感兴趣，不过打的人确实少，即便是在PS人最多的时候。