牌面出了Flush之后的打法

三个范围
1、flop donkbet range
2、flop check raise range
3、flop check call range
一般来说，第二个范围最窄，其次是第一个，第三个范围最宽。理论上，越窄的范围越难平衡；SPR越大越难平衡，SPR越大，三个范围越窄，反之则越宽，因为有效筹码深度会限制翻牌前我们进入底池的range。
德州扑克保持一个宽的范围是很有必要的，太窄容易被好的对手利用。例如C/R的range极端到只有set。当我们保持一个较宽的range的时候，我们的对手就会陷入猜测的境地，或者就只能够依据他自己的手牌强度去打。

谢谢大家的指教，总的来说有两派方法：

1. defensive bet，即出了3 flush之后仍然下一个decent size bet。
2. balance check range，把一些flush放在check range里面。

其实方法1也是一种balance，因为bet range里面本来就有flush，所以defensive bet其实是利用bet range的无上限来“掩护”middle strength hand。但是方法1的问题是，worse hands usually won't call here，所以经常是一个-EV的play，但是话说回来，方法2其实某种意义上也是-EV的，因为需要把一些flush放在check range里面，就miss了一些value。可以说第一种方法是利用小损失来避免大损失，第二种方法是放弃一些未得收益来避免大损失。

问题是：

1. 有没有更好的方法
2. 这两种做法从数学上价值是相差无几的吗？还是说一种优于另一种。

感觉Tom Dwan之类的选手应该更多是采用第一种吧，因为他们的range里面有很多bluff，所以当他们拿TPTK去turn bet一个flush board的时候，对手仍然会拿顶对中对甚至底对去call，所以这个play就是+EV的。而对于一个紧手来说就成了-EV的了。

尼禄 发表于 2014-7-24 10:23
你打得是多大的级别？  如果是北美 5/10以上， 国内200以上， 确实需要考虑这些情况，很难，结合他跟注的速 ...

北美1-2，不过打的人里面有具有这个能力的。

pongba 发表于 2014-7-24 13:39
北美1-2，不过打的人里面有具有这个能力的。

那我建议你绕开这些对手，去打好打的对手，1/2上应该是玩得差得更多吧？

pongba 发表于 2014-7-24 13:39
北美1-2，不过打的人里面有具有这个能力的。

尽量减少和好的对手的对抗，这是最+EV的事情。
没有完美的打法，只有针对性的打法，取决于你对对手的阅读。
对付好的对手，一定要有river bluff range来平衡。

whether there is a better way to play denpends on how villain plays.

if his range is well balanced, which means he's getting close to GTO, there is nothing you can do. although i highly doubt a 1/2 regular is capabable of that....

basically you should not deviate from GTO too much if he doesn't. it means you should bluff cath with an appropriate frequency. one way of doing that is folding the bottom of you range and call with the top of your range. for example, on a 27Q8sss board, you can c/f TT,JJ,AKo but call with AA,KK,AQ. then you reduce the confrontation to a coin flip: sometimes he'll bluff into your monsters; sometimes he got lucky by bluffing you off a better hand. later on when you find his leak (bluff too much or not enough), you can adjust accordingly.

i still think you should sometimes check you flush on the turn unless you don't have a turn checking range at all. otherwise what kind of strong hands can you have when you check the turn on a 3-card-flush board?

怎么这么无解

fafafafefe 发表于 2014-7-24 14:41
whether there is a better way to play denpends on how villain plays.

if his range is well balanc ...

thanks a lot fafafafefe, learned a lot

one additional question, I also see poker literatures saying that folding the top of your range is exploitable. like in your example, folding overpair and TPTK is exploitable, but how so? I mean if on the turn my actual & perceived range is capped by nut-noflush, then when he bets big on the river, anything in my range is just equally a bluff catcher (provided that the big bet is not thin value bet), then GTO would imply that I call with some of the combos and fold others, but should the calling or folding decision depend on the hand history? instead of on whether the hand is on the top of the range? I mean, if I strongly suspect (based on how the hand was played on previous streets) that he's on a flush draw and got there, would I be better off just folding even the top of my range?

根据对手防守，不进攻不代表不能call到底啊？如果疯松的对手，我call到底。

i'm learning too...