请教一手现场牌

Toronto falls view,live game 25 nl.

I am at sb with K7o,chip was around 400,4 player limped in，i called，bb check,pot was 30。
Flop:27K,rainbow,i check,ug bet 20,one mp called,fold to me,what to do?

I was thinking a while and raised to 50,ug took a look at the board and fold,the caller asked me how much i left, i said 400,his chip was the same, he said 200 more,back to me,this was a new table,the game just started about 20m,what to do?Easy fold there?

My question is should i check-raise the flop? Or just  call?Or should bet out first?

On a table where you think people will only 3 bet and shove all in flop with set, you really should not be playing K7 at all in a multi-way pot OUT OF POSITION.  (that's why you are all suggesting to fold right?)  Otherwise how are you going to get paid off for all the money you put in preflop even if you hit your 2 pair?

You only need complete the blinds to go in on a multiway pot it seems pretty decent, but the real problem comes after flop. K7 is what I would call a sucker's hand. When you hit your K, you are in trouble more often then not. You are out of position, it is hard to get paid by worse hand (everyone knows there is an over card on board). If someone K10 KJ or K9 type of hand, then you will be losing a not so small pot for sure most of the time.

So why are we playing this hand again?  We lose more than winning with top pair. and can't stack someone if we hit 2 pair. If we hit trips Ks, we have the same kicker problem as hitting top pair.  The only thing it might pay off is that you hit trip 7 and someone has a 7 and a worst kicker than you.   In conclusion, it is a losing hand over long run. and you can't even steal effectively simply because you are at sb and out of position. It is less of a problem if you are at button.  So fold pre is correct in my opinion just to avoid all the trouble spot after flop.  I would rather complete sb with 78o than K7o in fact.

As for this particular hand,  there is only a few hand possible,  77 22 K2  K7 27 (if he is terrible, i would not be too surprised if he limped with 27s on a soft live game), so you are about 50 50 on whether you are ahead or behind.  Adding all the idiotic 3 bet flop with top pair and semi strong kicker like  AK KQ KJ K10 and total air etc, i think it is a "fist pump shove all in" like what people on 2+2 would suggest.  I am not saying it is a winning play, but i think you have to shove at this spot, since you brought this to yourself by misplayed preflop.  Sometimes when it is a cooler, you just have to confront it with your stack.

我上面试图解释的就是，所谓的“松凶的高手会跟着看翻牌”往往都是他们所处的位置和情况，给了他们制订一套翻牌后的策略的空间

而这里往往没有空间

没有底牌并不是什么稀罕的事情，但是没有既定的合理策略，而是等情况发生了再逆推回去，因为自己的第一个错误而逼自己犯第二个错误，那就有问题了

原则上我是支持墙的。我推崇的观点是，尽可能多的便宜的看翻牌。这里跟3块看到翻牌的可能性很大，现场不像网上有那么多大盲位置的挤压。如果大盲真的行动，那他就是对着一桌子混进的玩家行动，也许前位还有准备LIMP RERAISE的。这时候大盲挤压咋呼的可能性非常低，K,7扔了也不可惜。在一个比较激进的现场桌上仍3元能看到翻牌的机会可不多。
如果有人愿意扔牌，我觉得也是稳健的打法。我印象很深的一个场面是，在HIGH STAKE的一把牌，前面混了5,6个人，300,600的盲注，加100水注。锅里大概4000，老刀在小盲需要跟300去看4000多的锅，但是他扔掉了9,4O。老刀一扔牌，满桌子都哄起来，所有人都在跟老刀开玩笑，那意思是：大哥，300都不跟，太紧了吧....
这种牌，大高们的打法也不一样。大部分松凶的高手都会跟着看翻牌，但是老刀扔牌，也不会有人说他打错了。

回复 32# skizzik


    看来我确实落伍了怎么看不太懂啊

回复  skizzik


    Make a hand 也不全不对吧
如果你有200别人搞到30靠你要考虑位置读人等
如果一桌人都 ...
伟大的墙 发表于 2010-6-11 15:27

但是你看一圈牌只需要7块，你为什么要花3块去看这一手呢？

你随便等两三圈，搞一手top 4%的牌去squeeze一下，有人跟了翻牌c-bet一下，平均至少捞回三四十块。他等三条的话，有时候他是有三条了，但是奈何我的AK啥也没中啊，我c-bet他raise我就丢了。或者他是中K了，但是我的JJ c-bet被rasie也还是丢了。又或者他这人喜欢什么都不中也C/R一下，我看看他的C/R都33%了，我掂量一下有个AK两高牌搞不好偶尔也go all-in了，当然，我起手质量这么高，我要是有over pair什么的对他肯定也go all-in了。他是肯定没有一个站得住脚的line的，而我有啊。

或者你没有好牌，但是那个对手一定会丢这样的情况，比如我说的我limp-3bet，我台面形象好，这个老是喜欢加注的人fold to 3bet还蛮高，那他fold给我这个人的UTG limp-3bet肯定不会低，那也可以赚钱。

最不赚钱的，就是limp这种没有任何站得住脚的后续计划的crap。我上回SB limp了个K4s都被教练批评半天。

回复 28# skizzik


    Make a hand 也不全不对吧
如果你有200别人搞到30靠你要考虑位置读人等
如果一桌人都有1000筹码，而且很臭很猛，z在小盲10yuan我就靠就等中牌.不要fold equuity
不是我们会读人会bluff就不需要成排了

你们有没有想过，正因为2里面要弃牌，所以1的跟注就是错的

如果你preflop fold了，没烦恼

如果你raise了，孤立出了1-2个对手，SPR也不是很高，最多估计也就4-6，你的top2你随便怎么乒乒乓乓我肯定不拦着你。

这个问题我们应该理一理

1、首先，你们K7o在这里喜欢跟3块。理由是“潜在收益好”，说得具体一点就是你们觉得比如发了K72这样的dream flop你们必然能从上面赚一大笔钱。（当然，这个结论怎么来的我们这个时候还不太能理解）

2、其次，当你们的K7真的发出了K72，你们C/R，对手flat一个多人的dry flop之后3bet，情况不太妙，但是你们打着“如果你翻牌前跟了3块，这里就不能弃牌”的旗号要把这手牌玩下去。

于是，你们是以2为因，证明自己的1是对的；又以1为因，证明2里面不弃牌才是对的。

回复  skizzik


    如果大忙来挤压就扔掉，光荣的输掉3元
还有啊人家楼主是扔进去3元凑成5yuan，这和3be ...
伟大的墙 发表于 2010-6-11 14:33

    如果你注意到一个家伙按照一定频率的挤压limper，那么你可以选择他大盲的时候，你任何底牌，比如K7o，你limp UTG，大家limp，到他挤压，到你limp-3bet，他OOP，call上也不一定好打，可能会丢掉，也可能给你一个打in position的3bet pot的机会。里外里你都不亏。

而这个SB的limp，随后的line是什么？那不就只能是postflop玩make a hand poker了

这个时代任何一个但凡入了门的牌手都会侃侃而谈的告诉你频繁的玩hit or run有多送钱