Live Cash一手牌请教打法

$1-2桌子，120$上桌第一次BB位拿到7d8d, 7人call, pot 15$,  flop Jd 10d 9c, 凑成最小str8和flush draw.

check到第三人下20, 就前边几把观察，这人１次在SB用77加注到20多抢过盲,　一次Allin 200多抢100的池，感觉打法偏松。

他后边都fold到我，我后边是个小筹码不足担心，感觉这20$真是很痛苦，根据对对手了解，要跟的话基本后边９成就committed了，现在就是Allin or fold抉择时候了。

这时该fold, call, raise or allin?? 各位高手能发表下高见嘛？

嗯，很有价值的见解～

这手牌当时是第一个action, before flop check in blind了～

不过感觉flop直接凑成的小顺子和小flush在多人pot情况都常是赢少输大的牌，没熟悉对手前也不想打太大。

再就是扣除10%的抽水+dealer小费+badbeat pot,　直接拿下pot也没多少油水～

如果都check around感觉也是不错结果，出来Q/K就先按flush draw来打，再看river对手数量和下注情况看是否跟，毕竟那时才投入10个左右BB,　撤退也从容。

[quote="alexallwin":ww32um7m]我想知道你当时为什么第一反应是check？而不是bet？you don't worry about everybody check around on flop? if this happened, and turn card is Q, K, what's your plan?

For this one, my first poped action is bet directly, for two reasons.

ok, if you choose to check, and this guy bet 20 on 15 pot, what's your idea about his hand range? this is a 7 way pot, and he is betting 20, a little bit over pot size. in my mind, his action showed he want to take the pot right there, and he should not bet for bluffing, maybe, but very few chance in multi-way pot, unless you knew this guy very well. So, his hand range should be pretty good made hand, made straight, set, two pairs, plus some good semi-bluff good drawing hands?

anyway, this is the one reason i don't like to check here. ok, what's next

[/quote:ww32um7m]


你的思路有些问题呀。


1.

嗯，很有价值的见解～

这手牌当时是第一个action, before flop check in blind了～

不过感觉flop直接凑成的小顺子和小flush在多人pot情况都常是赢少输大的牌，没熟悉对手前也不想打太大。

再就是扣除10%的抽水+dealer小费+badbeat pot,　直接拿下pot也没多少油水～

如果都check around感觉也是不错结果，出来Q/K就先按flush draw来打，再看river对手数量和下注情况看是否跟，毕竟那时才投入10个左右BB,　撤退也从容。

我想知道你当时为什么第一反应是check？而不是bet？you don't worry about everybody check around on flop? if this happened, and turn card is Q, K, what's your plan?

For this one, my first poped action is bet directly, for two reasons.

ok, if you choose to check, and this guy bet 20 on 15 pot, what's your idea about his hand range? this is a 7 way pot, and he is betting 20, a little bit over pot size. in my mind, his action showed he want to take the pot right there, and he should not bet for bluffing, maybe, but very few chance in multi-way pot, unless you knew this guy very well. So, his hand range should be pretty good made hand, made straight, set, two pairs, plus some good semi-bluff good drawing hands?

anyway, this is the one reason i don't like to check here. ok,  what's next

我想知道你当时为什么第一反应是check？而不是bet？you don't worry about everybody check around on flop? if this happened, and turn card is Q, K, what's your plan?

For this one, my first poped action is bet directly, for two reasons.

ok, if you choose to check, and this guy bet 20 on 15 pot, what's your idea about his hand range? this is a 7 way pot, and he is betting 20, a little bit over pot size. in my mind, his action showed he want to take the pot right there, and he should not bet for bluffing, maybe, but very few chance in multi-way pot, unless you knew this guy very well. So, his hand range should be pretty good made hand, made straight, set, two pairs, plus some good semi-bluff good drawing hands?

anyway, this is the one reason i don't like to check here. ok,  what's next

這個牌怎麼會去有 fold 牌的想法呢??如果這種牌都 fold  那什麼牌不要 fold 呢??

這是拿著同花連牌幾乎滿分的 board 了，還能要求什麼，除了順子是小的之外，flop 就中順子還帶同花的redraw，這種牌連 fold 牌的想法都不能有，如果對手拿著QdKd 我會很高興的把全部的錢輸給他，但這機會也太低太低了吧。

這個牌如果是我的話我會計畫在 turn 來 all-in 他，所以我會在 flop raise 他但也許不會太多，反正目標那麼明確，那打法就很簡單了，不要想太多。

这把牌sb弃牌，我是第一个行动，和bet那人中间就剩个小筹码的。

且不说后面还有几个人（3个人？）没行动，自己的处境很危险。

看了各位高手讲解大受启发，也谈谈现场的考虑：

fold: 感觉很难～

call: 像墙兄说的slow play打法很有启发性，不过这把牌没有位置, 要是被动check-call，如果出了diamond或对方2pair/set check turn难从对手榨很多钱，估计也就赢个50-60左右，而对手领先或抽成更大牌要输光120,　赢小输大的买卖会不会不划算?

raise: 考虑到stack大小, 基本等于发出allin邀请了，如果对方领先那肯定all了, 对方要跟话也committed, 对他也就fold/allin二选一了。

allin: 让自己彻底committed，同时比raise多点点对方fold的可能性. 所以当时直接就选择推allin了。

howard说的raise到55也很有启发，还得好好琢磨和allin 哪个相对更好～

同样的flolp，如果自己手上是top 2 pair 或 set 不知大家有没高见如何打比较好?  

感觉这些都是最难受的情况了，如果３人以上进pot中set基本就不扔了，不过剩２人时候这样flop不知大家会如何处理?

这牌我肯定会ALL了。
且不说后面还有几个人（3个人？）没行动，自己的处境很危险。
哪怕已经HU了，turn上出7~K或任意spade都极有可能kill双方的action。
再说如果对方是有Q+对子的draw牌，你现在不让对方买单，看到turn之后对方极有可能fold了。

pot这么多人，牌面又这么危险，况且很多turn都会kill action，我肯定raise flop。

raise到55转牌all好还是直接all118好呢？

对于一般的对手，我认为flop raise 55左右为好。因为这个raise如果被call，我毫无疑问就committ了，turn即使出现不爽的牌，我就为flush draw也得干到底。所以flop committ底线大概就是55-60左右。

满足了底线，就可以考虑榨取价值。如果我全进，会赶跑AJ, 也非常可能会赶跑2pair。为了多多的榨取价值，应该取这个底线，或者它上面一点点的值，以便对手继续跟。若对手2pair做成fullhouse，那是计划中的一部分，为了榨取价值所做的必然牺牲。

面对calling station型对手，可flop直接推，以免turn/river出现对手的scare card丧失机会。