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标题: 10月10号的第一把牌 [打印本页]

作者: David Chiu 时间: 2010-10-11 03:17
标题: 10月10号的第一把牌
今天在FTP打了一会儿牌，这是我的第一手牌，觉得挺有讨论价值的。问题是；如果你是theASHMAN103 ，会不会拿6千刀去看Flop？我个人觉得他有点太松了。

Full Tilt Poker Game #24587977397: Table Tiaquinn (6 max, shallow) - $50/$100 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 14:23:58 ET - 2010/10/10
Seat 1: David Chiu ($4,000)
Seat 2: theASHMAN103 ($15,279)
Seat 3: Luukie21 ($6,060.50)
Seat 4: rumprammer ($4,150)
Seat 5: URnotINdanger2 ($5,394)
Seat 6: tyme2gamb0l111 ($4,000)
tyme2gamb0l111 posts the small blind of $50
David Chiu posts the big blind of $100
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to David Chiu [Ac 9d Ah Jd]
theASHMAN103 has 15 seconds left to act
TheZodiacKiller (Observer): i love pigs day, time when all the familly get together and sing songs
theASHMAN103 has requested TIME
theASHMAN103 raises to $350
Bridgepool (Observer): lovely
FreshFluffy (Observer): old mc donald had a farm?
Luukie21 calls $350
Hattenford (Observer): we had our dinner om friday... so i got leftover turkey breast for sanmmies
rumprammer calls $350
URnotINdanger2 calls $350
tyme2gamb0l111 folds
tyme2gamb0l111 adds $50
Hattenford (Observer): yummmmmmmm
JIM_PAVER 1 (Observer): this little pig went to market
Bridgepool (Observer): lol Fresh
David Chiu raises to $2,150
Macky2 (Observer): thanksgiving rules\
TheZodiacKiller (Observer): turkey to dry
theASHMAN103 calls $1,800
Luukie21 raises to $6,060.50, and is all in
rumprammer has 15 seconds left to act
rumprammer calls $3,800, and is all in
URnotINdanger2 folds
David Chiu calls $1,850, and is all in
theASHMAN103 calls $3,910.50
Luukie21 shows [Jh Kh Tc Kc]
rumprammer shows [9c 6h 8s Th]
David Chiu shows [Ac 9d Ah Jd]
theASHMAN103 shows [Ts 4d As 7d]
Hattenford (Observer): not with thr correct amount of salt and butter sir
*** FLOP *** [Qc 2d 2s]
*** TURN *** [Qc 2d 2s] [4c]
*** RIVER *** [Qc 2d 2s 4c] [9s]
Luukie21 shows two pair, Kings and Twos
Bridgepool (Observer): Turkey not for me
theASHMAN103 shows two pair, Fours and Twos
Luukie21 wins side pot #2 ($3,821) with two pair, Kings and Twos
rumprammer shows two pair, Nines and Twos
Luukie21 wins side pot #1 ($450) with two pair, Kings and Twos
David Chiu shows two pair, Aces and Twos
TheZodiacKiller (Observer): u americans have thanksgiving, we have pigs day
David Chiu wins the main pot ($16,397) with two pair, Aces and Twos
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $20,671 Main pot $16,400. Side pot 1 $450. Side pot 2 $3,821. | Rake $3
Board: [Qc 2d 2s 4c 9s]
Seat 1: David Chiu (big blind) showed [Ac 9d Ah Jd] and won ($16,397) with two pair, Aces and Twos
Seat 2: theASHMAN103 showed [Ts 4d As 7d] and lost with two pair, Fours and Twos
Seat 3: Luukie21 showed [Jh Kh Tc Kc] and won ($4,271) with two pair, Kings and Twos
Seat 4: rumprammer showed [9c 6h 8s Th] and lost with two pair, Nines and Twos
Seat 5: URnotINdanger2 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: tyme2gamb0l111 (small blind) folded before the Flop

作者: 建设2008 时间: 2010-10-11 03:54
这样的情况之下,
相对于Luukie21的[Jh Kh Tc Kc],
我宁可拿theASHMAN103的[9c 6h 8s Th],
不知道对否?

作者: hahuhu 时间: 2010-10-11 03:54
本帖最后由 hahuhu 于 2010-10-11 03:56 编辑

抢个沙发。口袋A在哪都是强牌啊。
光顾着看牌局去了。楼上比我快40秒。

作者: fooltilt 时间: 2010-10-11 06:48
天文数字。。。大概这就是传说中的赌博了

不过ASHMAN好像是用4000去看16000的FLOP吧。那还说得过去吧。我可能看错了。

作者: RichZhu 时间: 2010-10-11 07:01

这样的情况之下,
相对于Luukie21的[Jh Kh Tc Kc],
我宁可拿theASHMAN103的[9c 6h 8s Th],
不知道对否? ...
建设2008 发表于 2010-10-11 03:54

通常情况是对的，这些中间张面对对手的AA比KK带大牌的胜率要好一些。

但是这手牌是多人进锅，拿着689T不是要担心David的AA，而是要担心其他人的中坚张，因为他的牌太容易被压制了。如果有人拿着89TJ，他就基本绝望了。事实上这手牌那个KKJT对他的影响比David的AA要大。另外一点就是同花的潜力，显然K同花要远好于T同花。

我在扑士杂志的新手入门里也提过，带大对子的起手牌最怕遇到AA，而连张的起手牌最怕遇到比自己大的连张。多人锅常常出现这些连环的冤家牌。就这手特定的牌而言，689T是四个人里胜率最低的，主要原因是其他三家都有同花可能，而他实际上没有。

作者: Howard 时间: 2010-10-11 07:19
本帖最后由 Howard 于 2010-10-11 07:30 编辑

给老邱转一下格式。另外咱也别被老邱玩的级别吓到，你就算完1万-2万的，扑克的原理还是一样的，呵呵。这句话说出来主要是给我自己壮壮胆。

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha, $100.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

David Chiu (BB) ($4000)
UTG ($15279)
MP ($6060.50)
CO ($4150)
Button ($5394)
SB ($4000)

Preflop: David Chiu is BB with A

, 9

, A

, J

UTG bets $350, MP calls $350, CO calls $350, Button calls $350, 1 fold, David Chiu raises to $2150, UTG calls $1800, MP raises to $6060.50 (All-In), CO calls $3800 (All-In), 1 fold, David Chiu calls $1850 (All-In), UTG calls $3910.50

Flop: ($20671) Q

, 2

(4 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: ($20671) 4

(4 players, 3 all-in)

River: ($20671) 9

(4 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: $20671 | Rake: $3
Main pot: $16400 between David Chiu, UTG, MP and CO, won by David Chiu
Side pot 1: $450 between UTG, MP and CO, won by MP
Side pot 2: $3821 between UTG and MP, won by MP

Results:
David Chiu had A

, 9

, A

, J

(two pair, Aces and twos).
UTG had 10

, 4

, A

, 7

(two pair, fours and twos).
MP had J

, K

, 10

, K

(two pair, Kings and twos).
CO had 9

, 6

, 8

, 10

(two pair, nines and twos).
Outcome: David Chiu won $16397, MP won $4271

作者: stormring 时间: 2010-10-11 10:28
好高深啊，好好学习一下

作者: monox0 时间: 2010-10-11 13:24
URNOTINDANGER 逃了

作者: maomaobiao 时间: 2010-10-11 14:03
这帮人,打着1K2K的，还一边聊天吃火鸡，真逗。

够驴，钱多，速来......

作者: monox0 时间: 2010-10-11 14:35
吃火鸡的是OB..

作者: ennowzy 时间: 2010-10-12 03:20
(高额桌的聊天框真好玩...)
为什么大台的人这么喜欢在两个option之间选择起伏更大的那个呢,fold/call从agg/weak角度上没什么区别吧,难道pro都是大赌鬼?

作者: luckypanda 时间: 2010-10-12 09:25
这都松得太吓人了，是不是过节了，所以大家都喝酒了呀？

作者: greatsunkai 时间: 2010-10-12 10:09
看到了URnotINdanger2

作者: fcf 时间: 2010-10-12 10:51
本帖最后由 fcf 于 2010-10-12 12:09 编辑

回复 1# David Chiu

首先声明我PLO也就玩过几千手牌，基本不会玩，所以说的多半是错的，不过David的帖子肯定还是要顶的

这里我觉得Ashman 跟是对的，他有两个flush draw，一个还是到Ace的，他最后是用3900多去赢一个20000多一点的pot，他只需要赢20%不到就可以了，这里如果直接看show down的牌，他是有23% 的盈率的

Omaha Hi Simulation
376,992 trials (Exhaustive)
Hand Equity Wins Ties
Ts 4d As 7d 22.99% 86,254 1,001
Jh Kh Tc Kc 31.54% 118,465 1,081
9c 6h 8s Th 16.65% 62,275 1,132
Ac 9d Ah Jd 28.82% 108,034 1,246

当然打牌时他是不可能知道别人具体的牌的，这里就要分析range了，我觉得以下是我猜想的range

David：
Ashman UTG raise，后面3个人跟，大家筹码都不深，这里David repot 应该是最好猜的，　一定是强牌，　而ｒｕｎｄｏｗｎ的牌对半会ｃａｌｌ，　那就应该就是AAxx， KKAJ， KKAQ， KKAT 这种牌，如果是KKAx的话，多半还有至少一个flush draw.
带入计算range:　ＡＡ＊＊，　ＫＫＡｈＴｈ

Luukie21：
Ａｓｈｍａｎ　再次ｃａｌｌ了以后，　ｌｕｕｋｉｅ２１　ａｌｌｉｎ，　这里他也应该是强牌，　而因为ｄａｖｉｄ的牌里ＡＡ，ＫＫ几率特别高，　ｌｕｕｋｉｅ２１　最有可能的牌应该是ｒｕｎｄｏｗｎ，　ＡＡ也有可能，　但ＫＫ应该不会有，　因为他还是会害怕ｄａｖｉｄ　很有可能有ＡＡｘｘ，　就算是很强的KKxx，比如KKAJ，对上AAxx也只有不到30%的盈率
带入计算range:　ＫＫＴｈQh， TJ8d7d， QJT8， JdTd97

rumprammer：
这里rumprammer的牌不是很好猜，我觉得也许是比较差的AAxx，比较强的KKxx，特别是两对那种，比如KKJJ加上至少一个flush draw, 还有也可能是rundown 牌。
带入计算range:　ＡＡ＊＊，　ＫＫＴsJs， KKJJ， KKTT， JT98, QJT9

再算一次， Ashman还是有基本上23%的盈率，如果这些range不错，那他的call比fold好了大概600块的EV，对于一个4000块的call，这个明显是对的，倒是他前面call David的raise有可能是错的，因为他应该想到很有可能会有后面的人allin，而其他那牌如果是大家call, 他被夹在preflop 3bettor 和一堆caller直接， flop上也会很难玩的好。

Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Equity Wins Ties
Ts 4d As 7d 22.94% 132,498 10,516
AA**, KKTcJc, KKJJ, KKTT, JT98, QJT9 20.41% 102,955 39,295
KKThQh, TJ8d7d, QdJT8d, JdTd97 18.13% 87,368 43,108
AA**, KKAhTh 38.51% 227,781 6,681

作者: horsewolf 时间: 2010-10-12 11:27
嗯是很松，是不是打得越大就越松啊？

作者: aSwill 时间: 2010-10-12 11:50
theASHMAN103 shows [Ts 4d As 7d]
建设看错了吧

另外 plo真是赌博波动太大

作者: aSwill 时间: 2010-10-12 11:51
多次在ftp看到老邱在打plo

作者: royalflush 时间: 2010-10-12 12:34
如果我没记错这个ashman 是leggo 的教练之一，网络高级赢家，在live比赛也有赢过high roller event

我不太了解他call $1800 David的第一个raise 的原因，但是我不太喜欢

第一他后边还有三个人没有act
第二虽然他有超过100bb但是后面三个加上David,最多的只有60bb
第三他最可能的对手David是几乎肯定shove any flop，flop 他如果有one pair 或什么draw必须call off; 加上David的牌范围，AAxx 基率很高，用Axxx去对付一个range 含有AAxx很高，几乎很差
第四他正在高级别打牌，玩家都是比较aggressive 后面三个对手筹码不多，可能会re-pot, 让他很多时候必须call off

他的第二个call 3900+ 我觉得ok 因为 5 ways pot, 太多死钱在

作者: giggsye 时间: 2010-10-12 15:57
ashman一个不太留意的call引发了一场赌博的血案

作者: David Chiu 时间: 2010-10-12 23:29
Almost went broke with this hand...

Full Tilt Poker Game #24637639276: Table Savin (6 max, shallow) - $25/$50 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 11:17:51 ET - 2010/10/12
Seat 1: just_the_nuts ($3,594)
Seat 2: The_Houdini ($4,717.50)
Seat 3: SmitjeSmee ($2,081)
Seat 4: davin77 ($16,505.60)
Seat 5: David Chiu ($4,125.50)
Seat 6: kunespoker63 ($5,257)
just_the_nuts posts the small blind of $25
The_Houdini posts the big blind of $50
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to David Chiu [Td 4h Qs Jh]
SmitjeSmee folds
davin77 folds
David Chiu raises to $100
kunespoker63 calls $100
just_the_nuts has 15 seconds left to act
just_the_nuts folds
The_Houdini calls $50
*** FLOP *** [Kh 6h Ah]
The_Houdini checks
David Chiu checks
kunespoker63 checks
*** TURN *** [Kh 6h Ah] [3h]
The_Houdini bets $150
David Chiu calls $150
kunespoker63 folds
*** RIVER *** [Kh 6h Ah 3h] [6s]
The_Houdini checks
David Chiu checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
The_Houdini shows [As 6d Ac 3d] a full house, Aces full of Sixes
David Chiu mucks
The_Houdini wins the pot ($622) with a full house, Aces full of Sixes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $625 | Rake $3
Board: [Kh 6h Ah 3h 6s]
Seat 1: just_the_nuts (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: The_Houdini (big blind) showed [As 6d Ac 3d] and won ($622) with a full house, Aces full of Sixes
Seat 3: SmitjeSmee didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: davin77 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: David Chiu mucked [Td 4h Qs Jh] - a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: kunespoker63 (button) folded on the Turn

作者: crazylvzi 时间: 2010-10-13 03:57
奥马哈我完全无解，经常搞错手里的牌……

作者: FreeFree 时间: 2010-10-13 04:36
本帖最后由 FreeFree 于 2010-10-13 04:39 编辑

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha, $50.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($3594)
BB ($4717.50)
UTG ($2081)
MP ($16505.60)
Hero (CO) ($4125.50)
Button ($5257)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10

, 4

, Q

, J

2 folds, Hero bets $100, Button calls $100, 1 fold, BB calls $50

Flop: ($325) K

, 6

, A

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($325) 3

(3 players)
BB bets $150, Hero calls $150, 1 fold

River: ($625) 6

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $625 | Rake: $3

Results:
BB had A

, 6

, A

, 3

(full house, Aces over sixes).
Hero had 10

, 4

, Q

, J

(flush, Ace high).
Outcome: BB won $622

david这手牌打的也太牛了吧，倾倒

偶尔偷看过david打比赛，看david常在蛮危险复杂的board上拿中等强度的牌river继续strong bet并max value，几乎从来不leave money on the table，让我极其震惊。和这手plo的最小化损失做对比，俺只能仰叹，神呀。。。

作者: maxpoker 时间: 2010-10-20 14:57
这么大的锅，没见过，想不到

作者: youngtercel 时间: 2010-10-28 05:39
BB is soft playing... Checking his pure Nuts on the river?

作者: youngtercel 时间: 2010-10-28 05:40
David played as if he would know the OP had set and board will pair up ...

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