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标题: NL400, 紧接着几把3bet和flop raise的牌 [打印本页]

作者: yyy6 时间: 2012-12-28 10:02
标题: NL400, 紧接着几把3bet和flop raise的牌
Action 相似，凑合看看。

*********** # 42 **************
PokerStars Hand #91384311508: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4 USD) - 2012/12/27 10:18:16 ET
Table 'Stearns III' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: yyy6 ($712.94 in chips)
Seat 2: Fish4trips ($474 in chips)
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ ($400 in chips)
Seat 5: BeMyHer0 ($324 in chips)
Seat 7: svansa ($400 in chips)
Fish4trips: posts small blind $2
$-Twackle-$: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to yyy6 [8d 8c]
BeMyHer0: folds
svansa: folds
yyy6: raises $4 to $8
Fish4trips: calls $6
$-Twackle-$: raises $30 to $38
yyy6: calls $30
Fish4trips: folds
*** FLOP *** [2h 6d 4d]
$-Twackle-$: bets $45
yyy6: raises $91 to $136
$-Twackle-$: folds
Uncalled bet ($91) returned to yyy6
yyy6 collected $171.20 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $174 | Rake $2.80
Board [2h 6d 4d]
Seat 1: yyy6 (button) collected ($171.20)
Seat 2: Fish4trips (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: BeMyHer0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: svansa folded before Flop (didn't bet)

*********** # 40 **************
PokerStars Hand #91384452793: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4 USD) - 2012/12/27 10:21:16 ET
Table 'Stearns III' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: yyy6 ($801.14 in chips)
Seat 2: Fish4trips ($466 in chips)
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ ($400 in chips)
Seat 5: BeMyHer0 ($380.20 in chips)
Seat 7: svansa ($400 in chips)
BeMyHer0: posts small blind $2
svansa: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to yyy6 [3h 3c]
yyy6: raises $4 to $8
Fish4trips: folds
$-Twackle-$: folds
BeMyHer0: calls $6
svansa: raises $26 to $34
yyy6: calls $26
BeMyHer0: folds
*** FLOP *** [4d 3s 9c]
svansa: bets $44
yyy6: raises $60 to $104
svansa: raises $262 to $366 and is all-in
yyy6: calls $262
*** TURN *** [4d 3s 9c] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [4d 3s 9c 2c] [Kd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
svansa: shows [Jd Js] (a pair of Jacks)
yyy6: shows [3h 3c] (three of a kind, Threes)
yyy6 collected $805.20 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $808 | Rake $2.80
Board [4d 3s 9c 2c Kd]
Seat 1: yyy6 showed [3h 3c] and won ($805.20) with three of a kind, Threes
Seat 2: Fish4trips folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: BeMyHer0 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: svansa (big blind) showed [Jd Js] and lost with a pair of Jacks

*********** # 38 **************
PokerStars Hand #91384532460: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4 USD) - 2012/12/27 10:22:58 ET
Table 'Stearns III' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: yyy6 ($1194.34 in chips)
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ ($400 in chips)
Seat 5: BeMyHer0 ($385.03 in chips)
Seat 7: svansa ($400 in chips)
yyy6: posts small blind $2
$-Twackle-$: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to yyy6 [Qd 3d]
BeMyHer0: folds
svansa: folds
yyy6: calls $2
$-Twackle-$: raises $12 to $16
yyy6: calls $12
*** FLOP *** [2h 3c 4h]
yyy6: checks
$-Twackle-$: bets $19
yyy6: raises $31 to $50
$-Twackle-$: folds
Uncalled bet ($31) returned to yyy6
yyy6 collected $68.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $70 | Rake $1.50
Board [2h 3c 4h]
Seat 1: yyy6 (small blind) collected ($68.50)
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: BeMyHer0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: svansa (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

作者: yyy6 时间: 2012-12-28 10:26
紧接着

*********** # 29 **************
PokerStars Hand #91384766607: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4 USD) - 2012/12/27 10:28:00 ET
Table 'Stearns III' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: yyy6 ($1191.43 in chips)
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ ($403.60 in chips)
Seat 7: svansa ($482.92 in chips)
yyy6: posts small blind $2
$-Twackle-$: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to yyy6 [Jc 9c]
svansa: folds
yyy6: raises $4 to $8
$-Twackle-$: raises $24 to $32
yyy6: calls $24
*** FLOP *** [7c As 6c]
yyy6: checks
$-Twackle-$: bets $40
yyy6: raises $72 to $112
$-Twackle-$: calls $72
*** TURN *** [7c As 6c] [Tc]
yyy6: checks
$-Twackle-$: bets $50
yyy6: raises $997.43 to $1047.43 and is all-in
$-Twackle-$: calls $209.60 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($787.83) returned to yyy6
*** RIVER *** [7c As 6c Tc] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
yyy6: shows [Jc 9c] (a flush, Jack high)
$-Twackle-$: shows [Ad Kc] (a flush, King high)
$-Twackle-$ collected $805.70 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $807.20 | Rake $1.50
Board [7c As 6c Tc 5c]
Seat 1: yyy6 (small blind) showed [Jc 9c] and lost with a flush, Jack high
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ (big blind) showed [Ad Kc] and won ($805.70) with a flush, King high
Seat 7: svansa (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

*********** # 24 **************
PokerStars Hand #91384960438: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4 USD) - 2012/12/27 10:32:07 ET
Table 'Stearns III' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: yyy6 ($713.41 in chips)
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ ($846.20 in chips)
Seat 7: svansa ($513.84 in chips)
svansa: posts small blind $2
yyy6: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to yyy6 [Jc 3c]
$-Twackle-$: raises $4.40 to $8.40
svansa: calls $6.40
yyy6: calls $4.40
*** FLOP *** [Ks 5c 4s]
svansa: checks
yyy6: checks
$-Twackle-$: bets $17
svansa: calls $17
yyy6: raises $33 to $50
$-Twackle-$: folds
svansa: calls $33
*** TURN *** [Ks 5c 4s] [Qd]
svansa: checks
yyy6: bets $100
svansa: calls $100
*** RIVER *** [Ks 5c 4s Qd] [As]
svansa: checks
yyy6: bets $555.01 and is all-in
svansa: folds
Uncalled bet ($555.01) returned to yyy6
yyy6 collected $340.70 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $342.20 | Rake $1.50
Board [Ks 5c 4s Qd As]
Seat 1: yyy6 (big blind) collected ($340.70)
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: svansa (small blind) folded on the River

*********** # 19 **************
PokerStars Hand #91385051942: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4 USD) - 2012/12/27 10:34:03 ET
Table 'Stearns III' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: yyy6 ($929.11 in chips)
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ ($810.80 in chips)
Seat 5: leba2206 ($400 in chips)
Seat 7: svansa ($400 in chips)
$-Twackle-$: posts small blind $2
leba2206: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to yyy6 [7s Ts]
svansa: folds
yyy6: raises $4 to $8
$-Twackle-$: folds
leba2206: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [9c Th 8h]
leba2206: bets $12
yyy6: calls $12
*** TURN *** [9c Th 8h] [3d]
pokerlegon joins the table at seat #9
leba2206: bets $40
yyy6: calls $40
*** RIVER *** [9c Th 8h 3d] [5c]
leba2206: bets $108
yyy6: calls $108
*** SHOW DOWN ***
leba2206: shows [9h 6h] (a pair of Nines)
yyy6: shows [7s Ts] (a pair of Tens)
yyy6 collected $336.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $338 | Rake $1.50
Board [9c Th 8h 3d 5c]
Seat 1: yyy6 (button) showed [7s Ts] and won ($336.50) with a pair of Tens
Seat 3: $-Twackle-$ (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: leba2206 (big blind) showed [9h 6h] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 7: svansa folded before Flop (didn't bet)

作者: doglas 时间: 2012-12-28 11:09
牛呀，居然在2-4玩，最好发点你的思路，让我们学习下，谢谢

作者: 1428 时间: 2012-12-28 11:11
漂亮，平时看不惯没有转换过的牌谱，这次看着挺习惯。

作者: yyy6 时间: 2012-12-28 11:14

1428 发表于 2012-12-28 11:11
漂亮，平时看不惯没有转换过的牌谱，这次看着挺习惯。

怎么转换？

作者: 1428 时间: 2012-12-28 11:26
Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 2045708
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $712.94
SB: $474.00
BB: $400.00
UTG: $324.00
CO: $400.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BTN with 8

2 folds, Hero raises to $8, SB calls $6, BB raises to $38, Hero calls $30, 1 fold

Flop: ($84.00) 2

(2 players)
BB bets $45, Hero raises to $136, BB folds

作者: 1428 时间: 2012-12-28 11:29
直接hm也能转。

作者: yyy6 时间: 2012-12-28 11:43

1428 发表于 2012-12-28 11:26
Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 2045708
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand H ...

谢谢

作者: ljxs168 时间: 2012-12-28 12:17
很赞啊，那手J同花输K同花纯属运气，其它的都很牛，问个问题，你拿AA这样的牌也是2bb加注吗？

作者: Wee 时间: 2012-12-28 12:19

yyy6 发表于 2012-12-27 20:26
紧接着

*********** # 29 **************

很高兴看到yyy6发谱。觉得每一手都很中规中举（至少在我眼中是），平衡自己的range做的很好。除了#24拿Jc3c连开三抢，利用越来越scary的牌面逼走对手的弱K或是some stubborn under pair, 肯定是有对这位特定对手的理解，我们局外人光从牌例看不出来，其它手操作我作为局外人跟着你的思路看得都很流畅。至于每一手的具体输赢就无关紧要了。

多谢分享！

作者: yyy6 时间: 2012-12-28 12:35

ljxs168 发表于 2012-12-28 12:17
很赞啊，那手J同花输K同花纯属运气，其它的都很牛，问个问题，你拿AA这样的牌也是2bb加注吗？ ...

其实我喜欢open2.5bb, 但是手机上太难操作。 3bb把筹码深度降低了他们看数据知道我vpip高爱3bet我 open小点好操作

作者: doglas 时间: 2012-12-28 13:31
9人桌，我以前在ps打了不少，但是效果不好，基本上做不到稳定获利，可能是我自己的问题，ps的9人好紧的

作者: dfu2012 时间: 2012-12-28 18:34
我的感觉，YY是否打2-4的时间不长？对方开始对你的ACTION还比较尊重。其后似乎就混战了。

牌例无疑是精彩的，从帖子的价值来看，就我自己而言，无启发（真话）。{:soso_e100:}

如此精彩的牌例，竟然无启发？无它，我太熟悉这些套路了。之所以熟悉，是因为我打的都是小额的，打牌的时候能放的开一些（并非乱打，还是很认真的）。

如果要有启发，希望更多讨论这些打法的问题，优缺点，从精彩中找出问题才有学习提高的空间。

说起来真惭愧，2/4级别对我目前来说是个遥不企及的数字，能打好网络微小级别讨个生活就非常满足了（真话）。（我越级的时候打法也非常的疯狂，基本对手没我的数据对我都很尊重，搞了几票大的后，我就退回小级别了。）

作者: dfu2012 时间: 2012-12-28 19:10
本帖最后由 dfu2012 于 2012-12-28 19:11 编辑

我相信，在一些牌手的眼里，AA的价值和TJ的价值没有太大的区别，各有各的用途。

我不会为YY的打法喝彩，他的打法和其他打法用途不同针对不同而已。

这种打法得以实现的前提是什么：位置，筹码深度。（这些是最基础的ABC吧）

不给他位置，不给他腾挪的空间，任他怎么折腾都不怕。

假如有人说没有位置对付松凶，要藏起大牌，不要重注，要给他做陷阱，谁是谁的陷阱？藏起翻前的“大牌”，恰恰给了松凶腾挪的空间和深度从而松凶能以低成本把边缘牌发展成RIVER的坚果或准坚果。

眼花缭乱的背后，就是一物降一物的逻辑。

对于多数人包括我自己而言：打鱼的技术要好过和凶手搏斗的技术。

作者: dfu2012 时间: 2012-12-28 21:16
写完这两跟帖，有点忐忑。看起来似乎有那么点打击别人，抬高自己的味道。更何况我根本没有大一点级别扑克的任何经验（无实证，我的说话应该更审慎的好。）

我确定自己应该没有这种意图，如果说用语偏峰有所意图的话，就是引向这种牌例得以成立原因的讨论，优缺点，形成一种更广泛的指导思路。

YY的牌例，就我自己的体会虽没有突破性的启发，但是有印证的价值，这一点，还是很感谢的，我想很多没有参与2/4这个级别的牌手都会有这个感觉，哦，这个级别可以这么打，等等。

很久前，看NICKY的一个帖子，有一句话我那时候觉得很有水平，可能现在还不过时，原话忘记了，大意是：所谓价值注，就是你手上的牌大过对手牌的时候。（所谓敌变我变。）
我的理解是这样的，比如对于70%进局的对手（松凶），我方持有对子或者AX在特定的牌局，完全可以在河牌价值下注或者摊牌，22（甚至A高）也可以在河牌的重池里继续做价值下注（这不是诈唬注），只要你判定对方的牌比自己的小。

和人性有关的游戏，没有什么概念是不可以突破的。

作者: andyliu7 时间: 2012-12-29 00:02
拿手手持88翻牌前靠对手3BET的牌，你是每次都这样打吗？翻牌只要是小牌就反加对手的CBET？对手若不flod，后面两条街如何考虑的？

作者: doglas 时间: 2012-12-29 08:31
yyy的境界不同的，这样打一定有他后面的道理的，只是他不是说而已。

作者: 1428 时间: 2012-12-29 09:21
再看看
Hand #1
Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 2046908
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $712.94
Fish4trips (SB): $474.00
$-Twackle-$ (BB): $400.00
BeMyHer0 (UTG): $324.00
svansa (CO): $400.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BTN with 8

2 folds, Hero raises to $8, Fish4trips calls $6, $-Twackle-$ raises to $38, Hero calls $30, 1 fold

Flop: ($84.00) 2

(2 players)
$-Twackle-$ bets $45, Hero raises to $136, $-Twackle-$ folds

Hand #2
Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 2046909
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $801.14
Fish4trips (CO): $466.00
$-Twackle-$ (BTN): $400.00
BeMyHer0 (SB): $380.20
svansa (BB): $400.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is UTG with 3

Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, BeMyHer0 calls $6, svansa raises to $34, Hero calls $26, 1 fold

Flop: ($76.00) 4

(2 players)
svansa bets $44, Hero raises to $104, svansa raises to $366 all in, Hero calls $262

Turn: ($808.00) 2

(2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($808.00) K

(2 players - 1 is all in)

Hand #3
Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 2046910
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $1194.34
$-Twackle-$ (BB): $400.00
BeMyHer0 (CO): $385.03
svansa (BTN): $400.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is SB with Q

2 folds, Hero calls $2, $-Twackle-$ raises to $16, Hero calls $12

Flop: ($32.00) 2

(2 players)
Hero checks, $-Twackle-$ bets $19, Hero raises to $50, $-Twackle-$ folds

Hand #4
Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 3 players - View hand 2046911
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $1191.43
$-Twackle-$ (BB): $403.60
svansa (BTN): $482.92

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is SB with J

1 fold, Hero raises to $8, $-Twackle-$ raises to $32, Hero calls $24

Flop: ($64.00) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, $-Twackle-$ bets $40, Hero raises to $112, $-Twackle-$ calls $72

Turn: ($288.00) T

(2 players)
Hero checks, $-Twackle-$ bets $50, Hero raises to $1047.43 all in, $-Twackle-$ calls $209.60 all in

River: ($807.20) 5

(2 players - 2 are all in)

Hand #5
Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 3 players - View hand 2046912
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $713.41
$-Twackle-$ (BTN): $846.20
svansa (SB): $513.84

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BB with J

$-Twackle-$ raises to $8.40, svansa calls $6.40, Hero calls $4.40

Flop: ($25.20) K

(3 players)
svansa checks, Hero checks, $-Twackle-$ bets $17, svansa calls $17, Hero raises to $50, $-Twackle-$ folds, svansa calls $33

Turn: ($142.20) Q

(2 players)
svansa checks, Hero bets $100, svansa calls $100

River: ($342.20) A

(2 players)
svansa checks, Hero bets $555.01 all in, svansa folds

Hand #6
Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 2046913
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $929.11
$-Twackle-$ (SB): $810.80
leba2206 (BB): $400.00
svansa (CO): $400.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BTN with 7

1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, leba2206 calls $4

Flop: ($18.00) 9

(2 players)
leba2206 bets $12, Hero calls $12

Turn: ($42.00) 3

(2 players)
leba2206 bets $40, Hero calls $40

River: ($122.00) 5

(2 players)
leba2206 bets $108, Hero calls $108

View all 6 hands

作者: yyy6 时间: 2012-12-29 11:56

andyliu7 发表于 2012-12-29 00:02
拿手手持88翻牌前靠对手3BET的牌，你是每次都这样打吗？翻牌只要是小牌就反加对手的CBET？对手若不flod，后 ...

不是每次首先从bet size，他翻前加注过大而在一个较湿的面c-bet size不大感觉多像诈唬这里他跟的可能性不大只有推回来或者扔掉再说这个牌面在我range里面我反加后他推回来应该是成牌了我应该会扔

作者: yyy6 时间: 2012-12-29 11:58

doglas 发表于 2012-12-29 08:31
yyy的境界不同的，这样打一定有他后面的道理的，只是他不是说而已。 ...

呵呵昨天带家人去澳门玩了趁着他们逛街打了会牌一个多小时没时间回复不是不愿意说

作者: yyy6 时间: 2012-12-29 12:09

dfu2012 发表于 2012-12-28 21:16
写完这两跟帖，有点忐忑。看起来似乎有那么点打击别人，抬高自己的味道。更何况我根本没有大一点级别扑克的 ...

只是分享不论什么观点都可以讨论 dfu不必介怀
我确实刚开始打2／4，还没证明能在这个级别用这样的AF盈利。感觉我打现场edge要大一些，所以网络不是首选要认真玩我就不用手机了也会考虑买数据

作者: dwinson 时间: 2013-1-4 10:03
学习了

作者: 闷闷 时间: 2013-1-9 18:00

yyy6 发表于 2012-12-29 12:09
只是分享不论什么观点都可以讨论 dfu不必介怀
我确实刚开始打2／4，还没证明能在这个级别用这样的AF盈利 ...

第18手牌很牛逼，就是J3 bluff的那把，想请教下思路，对手是weak K吗，为什么不能是抽花，river出花了还敢咋胡啊

作者: starbit 时间: 2016-4-21 12:29
能请楼主指点一下吗？

第一手是因为22 44 66基本不会在对手的sqeeze range里而会在你的call 3bet range里
所以这里的range是远远强于对手的吗？

Q3d和J3c那2手牌看的不太明白大神能否说一下思路。。。

作者: yyy6 时间: 2016-4-22 15:35

starbit 发表于 2016-4-21 12:29
能请楼主指点一下吗？

第一手是因为22 44 66基本不会在对手的sqeeze range里而会在你的call 3bet range里 ...

几年前的牌谱了，现在自己看了觉得好笑。

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